Quote :

"Jaybee1200 House Lannister 48247 Posts user info edit post no, never heard of it. Aside from sports, news, and documentaries I dont really watch TV 4/17/2011 7:51:13 PM "

you've never heard of The Wire??

4/17/2011 9:51:12 PM

Nope

4/17/2011 9:58:02 PM

Jaybee, you owe it to yourself to watch it. The first three episodes of season 1 start pretty slow but if you can make it into the middle of season 1 it will suck you in. Its available via Netflix (discs only)

[/off topic]

now back to your regularly scheduled thread

[Edited on April 17, 2011 at 10:03 PM. Reason : add]

4/17/2011 10:02:46 PM

as expected, very enjoyable. Can't wait until next week.

4/17/2011 10:06:37 PM

What is it? I hate "gritty, cutting edge crime dramas"

4/17/2011 10:07:01 PM

I haven't read the books yet, but I'll bet money that those "stone" dragon eggs are just dormant. It would be a sucky fantasy series with no dragons.

4/17/2011 11:44:49 PM

READ THE BOOKS!!!!

4/17/2011 11:46:49 PM

Really good.

4/18/2011 12:47:45 AM

i really enjoyed the first episode. the only casting choice i wasn't a fan of was rodrik, but that might have more to do with how i pictured him than anything. i thought they did a great job getting the audience acquainted with the characters.

Quote :

"What is it? I hate "gritty, cutting edge crime dramas""

the wire is the best show in the history of tv



[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 12:55 AM. Reason : ]

4/18/2011 12:49:38 AM

I watched and enjoyed it. I've never read any of the books or anything though. So just to clear things up, the dude with the white hair and his sister... their family was overthrown in Sean Bean's realm, right? It seemed to hint that their family had killed Sean Bean's sister but everyone thought that their race or whatever had been killed (The King said that "one remained" or something along those lines?)

Also, Sean Bean's character's name is Ned? That must be short for something... Ned doesn't really sound like much of a medieval fantasy realm type name. Every time I hear it I think of Ned Flanders.

4/18/2011 12:52:41 AM

Ned is short for Eddard, somehow.

4/18/2011 12:53:33 AM

^^ correct, the brother and sister fled Ned and Robert's men when they took over the realm from their father. And that was a while back, the sister barely even remembers the continent

4/18/2011 1:26:39 AM

^^^ Background info (It's not really a spoiler since its already happened and doesn't reveal any twists or anything, but I'll space it out a little anyway)












White haired siblings are the last of the Targaryens, a family that has ruled Westeros for centuries. Their father Aegon was the king, and he became crazy. He killed Ned's father, brother, and (as far as everyone knew) kidnapped his sister. Robert Baratheon (aka current king) was betrothed to Ned's sister, so he demanded her return. King Aegon refused and declared Robert an enemy of the state, demanding him to be executed. Robert started a rebellion with Ned and some others, then overthrew the king and took over. The siblings escaped before they could be killed.



[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 1:29 AM. Reason : ]

4/18/2011 1:29:22 AM

Quote :

"and (as far as everyone knew) kidnapped his sister."

I've never read the books, but in the show they made it sound like the sister was dead...

4/18/2011 6:39:13 AM

Correct. Both of these quotes are from HBO's "Viewer's Guide" which is a good place to go for those of you who haven't read the books. They are revealing only what you should know so far (iow avoiding spoilers):

"Although engaged to Robert Baratheon, Lyanna Stark never lived to marry him. Her abduction by Rhaegar Targaryen, heir to the throne, was one of several reasons why Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon raised arms against the Mad King Aerys. She died in Ned's arms during his attempt to rescue her; Robert still mourns her death."

"Reign of Madness

The last of the Targaryens to reign, Aerys II was dubbed the "Mad King" for his bouts of insanity and increasingly violent and unpredictable behavior. After the king brutally executed Lord Rickard Stark and his son Brandon, many houses in the realm rose up against him, under the leadership of Robert Baratheon. Robert and his friend Ned Stark defeated the army of Prince Rhaegar Targaryen -- who had ridden off with Ned's sister Lyanna -- and King Aerys himself was killed when his ally House Lannister betrayed him in his home of King's Landing. Only two Targaryens survived the war, children named Viserys and Daenerys, who were spirited away to the continent of Essos, where they grew up in exile. Robert took the Iron Throne and has ruled Westeros since."

4/18/2011 7:58:50 AM

Quote :

"White haired siblings are the last of the Targaryens, a family that has ruled Westeros for centuries. Their father Aegon was the king, and he became crazy. He killed Ned's father, brother, and (as far as everyone knew) kidnapped his sister. Robert Baratheon (aka current king) was betrothed to Ned's sister, so he demanded her return. King Aegon refused and declared Robert an enemy of the state, demanding him to be executed. Robert started a rebellion with Ned and some others, then overthrew the king and took over. The siblings escaped before they could be killed."

Aerys was the king. Aegon was Prince Rhaegar's son that was killed by Jaime Lannister. There were a bunch of other Aegons before that also.

4/18/2011 8:16:24 AM

Also another thing to note from critics who have watched the first 6 episodes:

Most of them said that non-readers will probably have to stick it out through episodes 2-4 as they continue to spend time on the exposition of this complex story in order to catch readers up and hook them on the series without them getting lost. But they all said it really picks up again in episodes 5 and 6. So for those of you who haven't read the books, don't get disheartened if the next few episodes don't pick up the pace a bunch.

4/18/2011 8:44:25 AM

If you're just watching this for TV and have no interest in reading the books, don't bother trying to understand the family trees, and who murdered who, and who was supposed to (or is going to) marry who in this show/series. You will spoon your eyeballs out from complexity and frustration.

I think the casting is spot on. Obviously they developed characters much more quickly for the screen than they do in the book, and they did a fantastic job of it. Tyrion is fantasticly lude, crude, and drunk right off the bat. You don't really get more than a hint of that out of the books at first. They're accelerating the strife between Arya and Sansa as well.

The casting is really spot on. Viserys was fantastic. Luwin was great in the small parts he was in. I even think they nailed some minor roles. Royce and Benjen were both perfect. Theon Greyjoy was another good cast, and I actually think they didn't do enough with him, and they even made it seem like he was almost another Stark child. Later on his relationship with the Starks is rather important.

I'm curious if any of you that haven't read the books were wildly confused. Having read the books it was spot on and not deviating from the text made it incredibly easy to follow.

The Dany/Drogo scene really aggravated the shit out of me. In the show they made it seem like Drogo raped her. That's not really how it went down. In the books he was caressing her and undressing her and before he had sex with her he ASKED "No?" she followed with a "Yes".

4/18/2011 9:02:26 AM

Quote :

"The Dany/Drogo scene really aggravated the shit out of me. In the show they made it seem like Drogo raped her. That's not really how it went down. In the books he was caressing her and undressing her and before he had sex with her he ASKED "No?" she followed with a "Yes"."

Same. Pretty major detail IMO.

4/18/2011 9:11:01 AM

one dude looks just like prince charming from shrek

4/18/2011 9:17:46 AM

Haha, yeah he does. That's exactly how I pictured him in the books, so it's a great cast for me.

4/18/2011 9:25:27 AM

Same. And yes the only change I had any misgiving about so far was the Dothraki wedding portion. 1) it was near the ocean and 2) the wedding night didn't end up being consensual. #1 is not a big deal, it was just a weird choice for the on-screen depiction and I think #2 will work out fine over the course of this season.

4/18/2011 9:32:55 AM

Quote :

"I'm curious if any of you that haven't read the books were wildly confused."

I made a concerted effort to pay attention to names, who people were, and their particular relationships. I followed pretty well.
-I didn't understand where the blond people fit in until I read this thread.
-I struggled at first with all the children, but I managed.
-I also thought the two fucking at the end were mother and son.
-Who is the creepy little blond boy who came with the king?
-What was the significance of the opening scene in the snow and all the "Winter is coming" talk?

4/18/2011 9:33:14 AM

The two at the end are brother and sister - twins to be exact. Jaime (a member of the kingsguard) and Cersei Lannister (queen).

The creepy little blonde boy is Prince Joffrey. Son of King Robert and Queen Cersei.

The opening scene is something that will get discussed and developed later on in the series. Let's just say that there is a reason there is an enormously tall ice wall built to isolate the northern part of westeros from the rest. They should cover this a little better when Castle Black and The Wall become a part of the show (probably starting next episode).

As far as the children go, even if you have a good handle on it now, this is a good little summary:

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/stark/

Really the most important thing to note so far is that might not have been clear is thatTheon (the one who gave Ned the sword at the beheading and almost killed the wolf pups) is a ward/hostage from House Greyjoy and not a Stark kid.

I don't want to give much more detail than that right now because some of these questions are things that the show itself should answer. Especially within the next couple episodes where people were saying they get into a lot more detail on the back-stories.

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 9:42 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2011 9:37:29 AM

Quote :

"The two at the end are brother and sister - twins to be exact. Jaime (a member of the kingsguard) and Cersei Lannister (queen)."

At first,
then,
...but then,

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 9:52 AM. Reason : qq]

4/18/2011 9:52:13 AM

My roommate definitely had a few "what the fuck" moments when I explained to him what was going on, haha. (Viserys inspecting his sisters boobies, Daenerys being 13, Jaime fucking Cersei, etc.)

4/18/2011 9:55:49 AM

yeah I'm sure. To be fair though, in the book she is 13 but in the TV show her character is either 15 or 16 (I forget which). They "aged up" all the kids. Mainly because of the content/being able to find the good actors they needed and partially because George Martin said he wished he handled the kids' ages better some as well (either longer lapses of time in the books or starting them older).

4/18/2011 9:59:34 AM

WHERE WAS RICKON?

4/18/2011 10:00:15 AM

awesome episode. took me a while to figure out Theon and Rob but it became pretty clear during the direwolf scene.

^ i think he was standing next to Cat during the scene when the King arrives. dont recall seeing him anywhere else.

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 10:01 AM. Reason : ^]

4/18/2011 10:00:20 AM

^^ he was there, just not a feature like early in the books. He was kind of in the background during a few scenes.

^ I think he was there. He was also there sitting off to the side during the archery introduction to Winterfell. (I think he runs off to retrieve the arrows in the background before Bran chaises Arya too)

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2011 10:01:45 AM

Quote :

"-What was the significance of the opening scene in the snow and all the "Winter is coming" talk?"

The following is from a Wiki of Ice and Fire, which I would not recommend going to unless you want spoilers and tons of them.

Quote :

"Westeros is at the mercy of erratic seasons that may last for many years, but whose duration is unpredictable. At the beginning of A Song of Ice and Fire the continent has enjoyed a decade-long summer, and many fear that an equally long and harsh winter will follow. It is unclear to which degree the eastern continent is subject to the same conditions. George R. R. Martin explicitly and more than once stated that the explanation of the Planet's climate will be revealed at the end of the series, so he cannot disclose any further details on the issue before that point. He also stated that the explanation will be magical in nature and will not involve any sci-fi elements. "

So basically the snow you see up at the wall, and all the heavy fur that the Starks wear at Winterfell, is how the fucking summer is in Westeros...at least in the north. Those are there summer snows etc. Whenever Ned says "Winter is Coming", he literally means it. However, it is also the House Stark motto if you will, and obviously it's foreshadowing for the series as a whole. Supposedly winter in Westeros is the most horrifying experience imaginable, and of course can last a decade.

A great majority of children in Westeros were born in the long summer and have never seen winter. There will be a scene in probably the next episode in which the Stark children's nanny, Old Nan, alludes to this in a very creepy but sweet caring way.

4/18/2011 10:08:35 AM

Yep. And I think you're right with the Old Nan scene. With that plus actual scenes at the wall/castle black I think some more of that will be revealed soon.

Yet another thing I will mention is that George Martin (not sure yet about how well the TV show will be able to manage it) has done a good job so far in the book series explaining things. However, explanations for things don't always come right away. There are things that are brought up early on that don't get explained or expanded upon until book 2, 3, or 4. It's part of the reason I don't want to give too much away because that wanting is what will bring people back to watch the show

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2011 10:13:19 AM

yeah, i don't think i ever really understood the first scene until some point in the second book. and even then, you don't really understand the full grasp of it until the third.

4/18/2011 10:21:45 AM

hodor

4/18/2011 10:22:27 AM

^^ exactly.

4/18/2011 10:34:56 AM

Hodor Hodor Hodor!

4/18/2011 10:42:52 AM

My wife hasn't read the books, and while I explained a few things to her (who the Targaryens were, mainly, and why he was honking his sister's boobs), she followed it just fine.

4/18/2011 10:42:59 AM

i think someone should explain the role of a bastard in this world, and how you are named if you are one.

i also don't think people who didn't read the books really know what "taking the black" means.

4/18/2011 12:34:34 PM

I just spent half the morning reading over this link:

Quote :

"http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/stark/"

The incest at the end is still lost on me.

Yet strangely welcomed.





[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason : link]

4/18/2011 12:34:55 PM

how old is the actress who plays sansa stark, because she is very pretty and her character is like

4/18/2011 12:46:20 PM

She's 15

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 1:01 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2011 12:58:09 PM

Quote :

"i also don't think people who didn't read the books really know what "taking the black" means."

"taking the black" along with the whole Night's Watch will be explained when they travel to the Wall (probably next episode).

another cast I was impressed with was Benjen Stark. and the scene that showed the enormous iced Wall at the beginning of the episode was breathtaking IMO.

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 1:11 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2011 1:07:25 PM

Yeah the whole idea of "taking the black" should be discussed next episode I think.

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 1:08 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2011 1:08:16 PM

i kinda wonder how much we should talk about what we can expect to come in the following episodes. i know when i'm really passionate about a show i hate every possible detail that could be a spoiler.

4/18/2011 1:11:27 PM

I'd say you're fine. But you're definitely right about not revealing too much. I've tried to be very brief answering questions so that people can find out stuff on their own. Certain details about the past are definitely useful and I don't have a big problem revealing those. But things that I know for sure will be explained more or showed on screen in upcoming episodes I'm trying to skirt around. It's difficult to answer questions without revealing more than you'd like at times.

[Edited on April 18, 2011 at 1:17 PM. Reason : .]

4/18/2011 1:14:19 PM

I'm just amazed at how fast the TV shows is going. Bran being pushed out the window didn't happen until chapter 8 in the book. Daenerys marrying Khal Drogo right away was also a shock. I guess they have to move at this pace.

4/18/2011 1:25:56 PM

Yeah. Even though they are adapting it at 10 hours/10 episodes for this first book, they still have a ton to cover. Compared to the book it was definitely fast but in the context of the show it seemed to have a pretty good pace.

4/18/2011 1:30:56 PM

Agreed. The Dothraki were exactly as I had pictured them too.

4/18/2011 1:39:48 PM

hodor?

4/18/2011 1:40:12 PM

Quote :

"i think someone should explain the role of a bastard in this world, and how you are named if you are one. "

I think this will be explained in later episodes too. There are other notable bastards that will be introduced. I think the book explains it when Catelyn reunites with her sister (the deceased hand John Arryn's wife).

4/18/2011 1:45:39 PM