^no shit. {shrugs}

10/18/2013 1:39:38 PM

I'm not sure if this belongs in a motorcycle thread or in :badasslelectric vehicles threas", but VICE spends some time with Mission electric bike, which is basically trying to be the Tesla of the motorcycle world, in terms of product design philosphy and where they are positioned in the market



The best part is where they take it to hipster bike shop in Brooklyn (where else?) and this hipster guy proceeds to hate on the bike in the very same way people hate on Tesla in this thread.

Also, the video reveals why theDuke866 would never buy this bike

While I think the electric motorcycles are less appealing to me personally than electric cars (clutch control and shifting gears is part of the fun), I think electric vehicles are officially here to stay. There are now electric vehicles with the levels of sexiness and performance that rivals some of the best conventional cars and bikes, and with a range/charging times that make them actually useful.

So smc can start eating a lithium battery right about now.

10/23/2013 1:07:27 PM

I'm pretty sure most things I've said about Tesla in this thread have been positive.

10/23/2013 1:23:44 PM

LOL, do you also rock a beard, thick-rimmed glasses, and aright-fitting t-shirt with an obscure message, TKE-Teg?

10/23/2013 2:21:00 PM

I love it, motorcycles are so much better suited to be electric anyhow. The only thing that concerns me is- most of the time I hear someone on a bike before I see them. And I am not sure there is any way the electric bike can make up for that?

10/23/2013 7:17:41 PM

https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/r

Starting price at $30k!

The next "best" electric motorcycle that I've seen is the Zero S and Zero DS.
They are more reasonable at ~$14k-$16k.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/specs.php

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php

The one spec they don't give for mission-motorcycles is the weight. i'll be impressed if they have those specs and kept the weight <525lbs.

[Edited on October 23, 2013 at 8:17 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2013 8:16:55 PM

A Hillsborough St Cup-A-Joe customer has a Zero there pretty often

10/23/2013 8:25:46 PM

Top speeds on the zero bikes are advertised at 95mph... is that for real?

[Edited on October 25, 2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason : Top speed for the Mission is billed at 140+mph]

10/25/2013 11:12:11 AM

Yeah zero is more in line of Chevy Volt of the motorcycle world in terms of design/price positioning.

As far as performance, I'd be more concerned with acceleration than top speed. And range, in case of electric bikes. How many times do you really have a chance to get the bike to 100mph?

In terms of sound, they are quieter than even stock gas-powered bikes, but that mission got a pretty bad-ass "movie-spaceship-like" pitch to its motor. If you really want more noise, you can always install an undertail system consisting of dual Bazookas and one of these things to make it sound like a v8: http://www.amazon.com/SoundRacer-Realistic-SuperCar-Engine-Effects/dp/B0030IQK30

10/25/2013 11:38:13 AM

I was thinking something like plastic card in the spokes like a bicycle. But a speaker playing the ricer kid sound effect would be pretty rad. Or maybe this: http://youtu.be/wy4bNS7M81g

10/25/2013 1:00:09 PM

Quote :

"I think electric vehicles are officially here to stay."

they have to fix the battery issue

I visited a bus manufacturer once for customer service 2 or so years ago. They used our engines either by themselves or in a hybrid for transit buses that municipalities would buy. The regular bus was $300k. The hybrid bus was $500k, the batteries were $100k by themselves, and they had to be replaced every 5 years. (I think that's one reason some municipalities are using natural gas engines.)

So to put that in customer car terms, it'd be like buying a small sedan for $25000 and every 5 years you had to put $5000 into it. Most people would not do that, they'd just get rid of it and go buy another $25000 car.

Quote :

"I couldn't get much, but here's a few shots in case anybody wants a peek inside the plant. None of my stuff was in the Body-In-White section, so I couldn't get any pictures of that area, just the assembly area. The plant is nice and refurbished, bright, and the cars are beautiful; but it is the least impressive auto plant I've ever been in, and I've been in quite a few. The facility is way larger than they need, so the work flow and process is haphazard. Their demand is so low that their assembly process is very manual."

I saw a Tesla assembled in a special on either Discovery Channel or Speed once and I agree wholeheartedly their assembly process was a joke. I was amazed they allowed that to be televised because it made them look so amateur to people that know manufacturing. I used to work in an engine factory that could produce 750 engines in 2 shifts a day, and that wasn't the exact same engine from one to the next either.

From what they showed it looked like they maybe assembled 4-6 cars per day. Which is fine if you only have the demand for 4-6 per day, but they were a long way off from being a mass manufacturer. (Admittedly, I have no idea how old the special was and I'm sure it has improved since.)

[Edited on November 5, 2013 at 3:29 PM. Reason : /]

11/5/2013 3:10:35 PM

Model S batteries need replacing every 12 years and they're $12,000, currently. The price should be lower in 12 years as well.

11/5/2013 3:38:44 PM

Quote :

"So to put that in customer car terms, it'd be like buying a small sedan for $25000 and every 5 years you had to put $5000 into it. Most people would not do that, they'd just get rid of it and go buy another $25000 car. "

Are you arguing this is a current situation with an existing sedan hybrid sedan on the market, or are you just typing nonsense.

Quote :

"From what they showed it looked like they maybe assembled 4-6 cars per day."

Or > 400/week. Whatever. Details.

Quote :

"they have to fix the battery issue"

Are you arguing that electric vehicles *aren't* here to stay?

11/5/2013 3:44:39 PM

Quote :

"I visited a bus manufacturer once for customer service 2 or so years ago. They used our engines either by themselves or in a hybrid for transit buses that municipalities would buy. The regular bus was $300k. The hybrid bus was $500k, the batteries were $100k by themselves, and they had to be replaced every 5 years. (I think that's one reason some municipalities are using natural gas engines.)"

I visited a computer store ten years ago. You could not find a laptop that cost under $1,000 or that could last more than three hours without being plugged into an electric outlet. Regular desktops were half the price, and I think that's why a lot of companies were buying desktops for their employees instead of laptops.

Quote :

"I saw a Tesla assembled in a special on either Discovery Channel or Speed once and I agree wholeheartedly their assembly process was a joke. I was amazed they allowed that to be televised because it made them look so amateur to people that know manufacturing. I used to work in an engine factory that could produce 750 engines in 2 shifts a day, and that wasn't the exact same engine from one to the next either. "

Granted, maybe there are more automated assembly lines, but I also worked in earth moving-equipment assembly plant that was much more rudimentary than what I saw on the documentary about Tesla posted a few pages back (not sure if we are talking about the same documentary). They are not utilizing the entire manufacturing facility, but they are more or less keeping up with the demand for Model S while installing a new line for Model X, while getting industry recognition for some of the best build quality. I'd say that's nothing to be ashamed of. Maybe you saw a documentary about the Roadster assembly line? That was a lot more of a manual endeavor.

Quote :

"Are you arguing this is a current situation with an existing sedan hybrid sedan on the market, or are you just typing nonsense."

I think he is just arguing for the sake of arguing. Kinda like we all do here.

11/5/2013 7:56:48 PM

Quote :

"Kinda like we all do here."

I agree. I also think that arguing is the only type of conversation that keeps the Tesla thread going-

11/6/2013 7:33:00 AM

Quote :

"I think he is just arguing for the sake of arguing"

He extrapolated some supposed hybrid bus costs and some supposed hybrid bus maintenance calendar to consumer hybrid vehicles, while the reality of consumer hybrid vehicles is nothing even remotely similar to what he depicted. His post doesn't even meet the low bar of argument because he's not making any real point.

Quote :

"I also think that arguing is the only type of conversation that keeps the Tesla thread going"

I mean, we could all just post developments related to Tesla/electric cars and discuss those developments like adults, without posting moronic shit like "ELEKTRIC CARS R STUPID" and "THE BATTERES EXPLODE"

11/6/2013 9:57:32 AM

^I was hinting that many (er...most) don't really care about the Tesla cars.

[shrug]

11/6/2013 1:10:16 PM

Then why click on the thread?

11/6/2013 1:30:39 PM

no one cares about a manufacturer that brought the biggest single disruptive technology to the automotive mass market in almost a century

11/6/2013 1:36:56 PM

I click on the thread because I am interested in the thread and the banter that is present; however I'm not 'that' interested EV's. Don't hate-


Edit: it's the pompous-assed attitude you guys emit when folks don't respond over your posts in these types of threads with "ooooooooh's" and "aaaaaaahhhh's", that's what gets everyone going.

[Edited on November 6, 2013 at 1:49 PM. Reason : happy? ]

11/6/2013 1:47:17 PM

Tesla is a pretty big deal, lots of people care. lots of people on this site care, including multiple people in this thread.

11/6/2013 1:50:32 PM

Quote :

"it's the pompous-assed attitude you guys emit when folks don't respond over your posts in these types of threads with "ooooooooh's" and "aaaaaaahhhh's", that's what gets everyone going. "

Care to offer some examples?

11/6/2013 2:06:53 PM

Every retort you (and Igor) provide to any negative suggestion

11/6/2013 2:43:50 PM

I'll take that as a no.

11/6/2013 2:52:36 PM

100% honest

11/6/2013 4:20:43 PM

I think Tech Talk and Soap Box folks are just as interested, if not more interested, in Tesla than the Garage folks. The most intriguing thing about Tesla are not even the cars themselves(although they are amazing cars by most accounts), but the story of building a car that will turn the industry upside down, possibly change the way we travel, send huge ripples down the energy sector, and have a huge impact to how we generate, use, and conserve energy. I can't think of any other manufacturer with a similar effect on everyone since Ford of Henry Ford days.

[Edited on November 6, 2013 at 9:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2013 9:42:56 PM

Just in case you're not keeping score Igor, that was an example of:

Quote :

"the pompous-assed attitude you emit when folks don't respond over your posts in these types of threads with "ooooooooh's" and "aaaaaaahhhh's", that's what gets everyone going"

11/6/2013 11:32:52 PM

Well I guess that'll get everyone going then

11/7/2013 2:40:47 AM

^^ yes, and

Quote :

"I can't think of any other manufacturer with a similar effect on everyone since Ford of Henry Ford days."

I'll agree.

11/7/2013 7:30:07 AM

I'm pretty interested in Tesla because it's new technology. Given the current economic and energy climate I can't imagine myself buying an EV for at least a decade, if even then. But its interesting stuff nonetheless.

Furthermore, I'm very happy to see that it is an American company doing this, setting the standard for the world again

[Edited on November 7, 2013 at 8:17 AM. Reason : k]

11/7/2013 8:17:05 AM

Hey look another Tesla burnt up

11/8/2013 8:26:27 AM

Quote :

"Tesla cites added protective casing and ventilation around the energy-dense batteries as reason for its superior safety record. The Model S ranked among the safest cars on the road in NHTSA testing. Americans drive an estimated 3 trillion miles per year according to the Department of Transportation. US fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year between 2006 and 2010, according to the National Fire Protection Association. Those fires caused an average of 209 civilian fatalities. There are 19,000 Model S drivers worldwide, according to Tesla Motors, and they have driven a total of more than 100 million miles. Three fires have been reported to date. Tesla Motors says it knows of no fatalities ever stemming from an accident involving a Model S. In his blog post last month, written after the first fire, Mr. Musk crunched the numbers. Updating those, it would suggest that on average one car catches fire every 20 million miles; for Tesla, it works out to one fire for every 33 million miles."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2013/1107/Tesla-fire-3rd-Model-S-crashes-burns.-Tesla-Motors-TSLA-stock-follows-suit

11/8/2013 9:05:57 AM

to be fair, those fires in the Tesla have been contained a lot better than if it would've been a non-Tesla.

BTW, I would totally have a Tesla.

11/9/2013 3:54:25 PM

Quote :

"“I had a Tesla. I was one of the first cats with a Tesla. I think I was, like, number five on the list. But I’m telling you, I’ve been on the side of the road a while in that thing. And I said to them, ‘Look, guys, why am I always stuck on the side of the fucking road? Make it work, one way or another.’?”"

Federal probe intensifies...

11/11/2013 10:36:20 PM

You lost any semblance of credibility you had 4 pages ago smc.

11/11/2013 10:44:09 PM

11/11/2013 11:06:46 PM

Class-action lawsuit filed against Tesla by the investors it defrauded.
http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2013/11/08/tesla-model-s-fires-lead-to-investor-lawsuit/

11/12/2013 1:24:11 PM

Quote :

"Pomerantz specializes in corporate, securities and antitrust suits."

Lol, the worst investors you could possibly have.

11/12/2013 1:37:19 PM

i hope they have another fire so i can buy some stocks at fire sale prices

11/12/2013 1:45:23 PM

Quote :

"But the new suit alleges that the car “suffered from material defects which caused the battery pack to ignite and erupt in flames under certain driving conditions.”"

haha, "certain driving conditions" being hitting something that can puncture a 1/4 steel plate. Do you know how thick (or more accurately, how thin) are gas tanks in gasoline-powered cars?

Also, ^

11/12/2013 3:32:52 PM

two immediate SMC red flags:

1) The press release for this class action lawsuit is a San Francisco BLOG.

2) In the press release for this class action lawsuit, the firm is "seeking to represent", which means they don't actually even HAVE an audience with intent to sue. This is classic ambulance chasing litigation bullshit, and it won't go anywhere.

11/12/2013 3:49:44 PM

By the way, a statement from the driver shared on the same blog:

http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2013/11/11/tesla-fire-postscript-driver-praises-his-torched-car/

Quote :

"“I felt a firm ‘thud’ as the hitch struck the bottom of the car, and it felt as though it even lifted the car up in the air,” he wrote. “My assistant later found a gouge in the tarmac where the item scraped into the road.” He continued to drive, but within 30 to 45 seconds, the car flashed a warning on the dashboard, saying “Car needs service. Car may not restart.” Shibayama kept going, hoping to make it home. One minute later, the car told him told him to pull over and notified him that it was shutting down. He pulled to the side of the freeway, got out, and walked to a safe distance. Smoke began pouring from the underside of the car, and within two minutes, the front end caught on fire. The hitch apparently punctured the electric car’s lithium-ion battery pack, which lies beneath the floorboards and is protected from the road by a steel plate. “Had I not been in a Tesla, that object could have punched through the floor and caused me serious harm,” Shibayama wrote. His final take: “This experience does not in any way make me think that the Tesla Model S is an unsafe car. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.”"

How may gas-powered cars would give you a warning if the tank was punctured and you had gas leaking all over your exhaust, ready to catch on fire?

[Edited on November 12, 2013 at 4:08 PM. Reason : .]

11/12/2013 4:07:49 PM

Well the Ford Pinto certainly didnt.

11/12/2013 4:15:55 PM

The law firm is positioning itself for the flood of angry investors when the overvalued stock crashes more. Very wise.

Gas tanks are relatively small, protected at the rear of the car, and can be repositioned if necessary. A federal mandate to move the battery pack will grind the company to a halt.

Don't need no computer to tell me my car is on fire. Or rather, announce to me that it is turning itself off for vague reasons. Seems like something a chick would like, though.



[Edited on November 12, 2013 at 4:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/12/2013 4:16:13 PM

Quote :

"Don't need no computer to tell me my car is on fire. Or rather, announce to me that it is turning itself off for vague reasons. Seems like something a chick would like, though."

ORLY? Remember this recent car fire? Five people died in a passenger compartment before driver ever realized the car is burning

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/25/limo-fire-lawsuit_n_4165315.html

11/12/2013 5:20:37 PM

Those deaths were because the only door was blocked. Hmm, I wonder what other car has doors that are reported to fail to open reliably.

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/interior-touch-sensitive-door-handles?page=2

Quote :

"door would not open when he pulled it. unable to easily open a front door. And this is not even with a power failure. I tried to touch the handle but it wouldn't extend. A door that is unlocked (handle was extended) but refuses to open from the outside is more than inconvenience I had this happen with the test car in the Santa Monica showroom - pressed the handle, it extended, gave it a tug, nothing. Salesperson tried a couple times and it opened, but I could tell from their reaction that it wasn't the first time they'd seen that. I'd rather not explain to everyone how to open my doors My door handles have been glitchy since the day I picked up the car."

[Edited on November 12, 2013 at 5:57 PM. Reason : .]

11/12/2013 5:50:05 PM

DId you read your own post?

Quote :

"As previously posted, a mechanical override cable is built-in. Motors, wires and power can all fail and you can get out immediately. Just pull firmly on the handle and the door opens. The wimps at Fisker put in an obscure separate emergency pull ring. Complicated, and downright scary if you are panicking. TM's elegantly simply design does it right."

And my point is, this guy's car was on fire and he continued driving on the highway with a giantball of flame in his rearview. The whole rear third of the car was burned out by the time he came to a stop.

11/12/2013 5:58:09 PM

http://www.nfpa.org/research/fire-statistics/the-us-fire-problem/highway-vehicle-fires

187,000 fires per year, 270 deaths, and a billion dollars in yearly property damage. This is for technology with "federal mandates" that has been refined for almost a hundred years now.

I'd say Tesla is doing remarkably well in comparison.

Unlike in a gas vehicle, the Tesla gives the operator time to safely stop, position and exit the vehicle, saving property damage and deaths.

11/12/2013 6:22:01 PM

Trolls give 0 shits about logic.

11/12/2013 8:23:33 PM

Quote :

"The accident occurred in Santa Clarita — outside of Los Angeles — when Walker's Porsche apparently lost control and crashed into a tree, TMZ reported. The car burst into flames and exploded."

How many stories will we get about porches being unreasonably unsafe I wonder.

11/30/2013 10:49:18 PM