caymen is faster and gets better mpg... when a car has both speed and efficiency over your car... you failed somewhere.

[Edited on May 25, 2012 at 8:35 AM. Reason : .]

5/25/2012 8:34:53 AM

Headline: "TOYOTA BEATS PORSCHE"
Reads Article: Toyota didn't beat Porsche.

What a joke (the article, not the cars).

[Edited on May 25, 2012 at 10:09 AM. Reason : l]

5/25/2012 10:07:53 AM

yeah if you weight x-factor 10 times more than any tangible measurable factor... TOYOTA BEATS PORSCHE!!

.... or not...

5/25/2012 10:09:36 AM

^^agreed.

And it seems like all these reviews praise the car for handling, but all they do is drive on tracks or canyon/mountain roads. Not a very well rounded review IMO.

5/25/2012 10:41:26 AM

Pretty much. You can pick up an '07 cayman w/~40k miles for about $28k these days, depending on options, which is the same price as a fully loaded BRZ.

5/25/2012 12:49:29 PM

The Porsche maintenance/repair costs will eat the Subie/Scion costs alive.
It's just poor journalism for your article to directly contradict your headline in nearly every way.

I'm still not putting the FT-86 down even though it's not the car for me at current power levels...Just saying the journalistic hype seems greater than the vehicle itself.

I think it'll be a great alternative to the rides on the used market today once a little depreciation sets in. Kind of like the 240SX.

5/25/2012 3:47:24 PM

who the fuck wants a cayman, I mean really?

5/26/2012 1:12:26 AM

fuck did you guys see the prices in the australia... 38K for toyo and 115K for cayman

i knew cars were expensive in uk/europe compared to the US, but didn't know about australia.

5/26/2012 1:22:01 AM

Australian dollar is worth less than ours...

but not that much less

5/26/2012 8:38:40 AM

eh, it is so little less that i wouldn't even call it 'less' (just as the canadian dollar)

(ratio is 1 to ~1.02)

5/26/2012 8:45:56 AM

Damn used tO be a buck and a quarter.

5/26/2012 3:01:47 PM

yeah same with canadian dollar... but that's also now 1 to 1.03 (US to CD)

5/26/2012 4:01:08 PM

Pretty sure both of those countries have various fees tacked onto the vehicles would raises the cost of owning a car in those countries across the board. In other news...

Quote :

"Toyota working on Playstation-compatible track day black box for Scion FR-S Scion FR-S Autocar reports Toyota and Subaru are working on ways to sharpen the GT 86, BRZ and Scion FR-S triplets. While that may mean buyers could see a convertible version of the sports coupe as soon as 2014, engineers are also working on a variety of other improvements, including a new track telemetry system. Using an onboard black box, the gadgetry will record a slew of data from track days. That's nothing new, but the cool part is buyers will then be able to upload and compare their times with other FR-S owners via Sony PlayStation. The report says Toyota is currently working to map major tracks around the world. There's no word on when the kit will debut, but according to the report, buyers of early models will be able to retrofit their cars with the telemetry system with relative ease. In addition, multiple online tutorials and demonstrations will be available for various tracks. "

Um, to quote someone in the comments section "Turbo > Playstation"

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/31/toyota-working-on-playstation-compatible-track-day-black-box-for/#aol-comments

6/1/2012 1:12:06 PM

turbo, supercharger, 2 more pistons i don't care... anyway you can get an extra 100 chp... that's what this car needs.

6/1/2012 1:20:42 PM

LOL, I just "liked" your comment on AB

6/1/2012 1:36:03 PM

Friend of mine pre-ordered one (he had the option to eventually not buy). He drove it and was disappointed with the lack of torque and lack of engine sound. He said the handling was good at the limit but in daily driving scenarios it wasn't what he was looking for. His current daily driver is a TDI Golf and he also has a modded Lotus Exige S.

6/2/2012 8:14:11 AM

so... over hyped :fail:

6/2/2012 9:37:47 AM

Quote :

"the gadgetry will record a slew of data from track days"

ain't nobody takin' that thing to the real tracks. hope they have fun recording data from cone-filled parking lots

6/2/2012 10:36:44 PM

does it record everything all the time?

if so they will have fun voiding warranties and providing evidence in collisions and moving violations

6/3/2012 12:36:57 AM

^^ignorance ITT

^I would imagine not.

6/4/2012 8:28:28 AM

I think this car, in its current form, will end up being a more-reliable and more fuel efficient Rx-8. It will be fun to drive to some people and the journalists will love it, but ultimately its lack of power will hold it back. Boosting it won't go so well and owners will start to have a chip on their shoulder from people calling their car slow all the time.

6/4/2012 7:58:22 PM

^well said. started to embellish, but that's enough. gg.

.... ok, at least I didn't talk about the rx8 comparison... ...but I had another thought about the prospect of owning one of the ft-86 twins... sort of related to comments about the ft86 being more reliable... when compared to a renesis, I guess it HAS to be, but just how reliable it would otherwise be considered made me think of something where it's likely this engine will either get turboed by a manufacturer in the future or will otherwise be the likely recipient of aftermarket fitment of a turbo setup...

I like the idea of toyota's port AND direct injection system if it actually helps keeps the valves in good shape... I remember a mechanic at some point telling me some of the DI mazda motors' (mz3, mz6, cx7) failures were caused by degradation of valvetrain performance (don't remember if it was mass or friction or heat damage to fitment or something else) because of deposit accumulation from the valves not being regularly 'sprayed off' by port-injected fuel... just realized how little I really thought through that comment until now... I remember the comment being accompanied by saying that for some reason the direct-injection turbo GM ecotecs and vw/audi motors and the acura RDX's setup has been so far unaffected despite similarly lacking port injection...

I point it out because of the prospective nature as to just how much more reliable this new motor will be (relative to the rx8 rotary, which obviously was lacking for reliability for its high-output, for a rotary without turbos, anyway) because C&D suggested last month that the next wrx would use turboed only-direct-injection version of this motor, and that would then lack both port-fuel spraying to clean off valves as well as higher induction temps.

I invite someone who knows something about the legitimacy/ bs value of this logic to direct injected motors, whether turbo or otherwise, to comment.

I think that if it IS a legit concern, then perhaps the lack of subaru/scion ever offering a factory-turbo version of this coupe could be encouraging for aftermarket turbo fitment where this motor WOULD have port-injection to protect against the heat+lackofvalve'washing' combination which would otherwise logically result in the event of adding a turbo to a version of this motor if it meant NOT having port injection.

6/7/2012 5:45:26 PM

So the big question is, what's the better move of the following?


Spend $26,000 on a new BRZ/FRS and then a further $7,000 in aftermarket upgrades (turbo/supercharger, improved cooling, upgraded brakes, maybe stronger clutch) voiding the warranty in the process, to make it a hoot at the track.

or

Find a late model Cayman S for around $33-35k that is track ready from the get go, but also has no warranty and higher maintenance/operating costs.

6/7/2012 9:31:07 PM

I've started seeing a couple of the scions around N. Rawley

they look good IRL


NO to the Gayman

6/7/2012 9:33:36 PM

Gayman? That's what you call the best modern day interpretation of your beloved NSX?

6/7/2012 11:07:51 PM

get a proper P-car

6/7/2012 11:20:39 PM

you're a tough cookie to figure out

Porsche doesn't make a "proper" P car anymore if you're referring to the 911. They've gone soft with it.

[Edited on June 7, 2012 at 11:24 PM. Reason : k]

6/7/2012 11:23:51 PM

/soft


[lol]

6/8/2012 8:42:06 AM

Congratulations, you just posted a pic of the previous generation

6/8/2012 9:23:25 AM

lol c'mon you know the new one will be out momentarily.

6/8/2012 9:49:26 AM

its already out, and it's more GT-ish than ever.

6/8/2012 10:28:03 AM

blame the ppl who actually buy 'em. bastards.

that's something that could fill a thread: "how do you make enthusiasts buy 'new' again?"

6/8/2012 7:52:24 PM

want to touch the hiney

[Edited on June 8, 2012 at 9:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2012 9:06:04 PM

I saw one of these things in raleigh a week ago, by triangle town center. Silver or grey, wearing Scion badging? Strange looking little thing.

6/8/2012 9:25:19 PM

As stated in this thread the Toyota version is sold in the US as a Scion.

It's gay as hell but what can you do about it?

6/12/2012 1:57:30 PM

i saw one in person and it does look damned fine...

but 200hp just make wah wah wah... noises in my head.

6/12/2012 2:48:53 PM

I also have an issue buying cars with fake fender vents

6/12/2012 3:03:17 PM

Like future caddy ?

Damn...

Hey atleast my current hood scoop works.

6/12/2012 5:24:44 PM

LOL, no the FRS man. I think that Caddy's vents are functional, and if they're not cars with 500+ hp get a pass. 200 hp sports cars do not.

6/12/2012 6:52:27 PM

Saw a Scion at the Kangaroo on Gorman. Looked good! Shame about the power...

6/13/2012 9:10:25 AM

Thousands sold over several months, and I have yet to see one. I find that a little weird.

7/18/2012 12:09:31 PM

I test drove the Scion last week. It definitely looks good in person, even better than in pictures.

As far as the way it drives, I liked the feel of the steering and the way the car handled (didn't push it much though, it was wet out). It doesn't feel slow necessarily, but it definitely feels slower than the S2000 in terms of power, which isn't exactly a muscle car either. To me it feels like driving an S2000 where VTEC never kicks in, which is pretty bad I guess.

The shifter felt way too balky for a sports car that claims to be all about the feel of the drive. I know the S2000 has spoiled me there, but man it felt cheap and clunky. I haven't heard many reviews complain about the shifter though, so maybe its just me.

Oh, and I didn't have my helmet along, but I'm about 98% sure that I'd have to lower the seat to fit in it with a helmet on, hah. The head room is worse than an S2000 with the top up, I guess due to having an actual roof instead of just a layer of canvas while being roughly the same size overall.

7/18/2012 2:50:41 PM

you have a freakishly long torso man...

7/18/2012 3:01:28 PM

e46 M3 had non functional vents also.

I like the idea of the FRS a lot but the car itself looks a bit high and a bit... cheesy/cheap to me. I'll have to drive one.

7/18/2012 3:50:11 PM

^^ That's what she sai...nah, I got nothing. I think you're right and it plays hell with my fitting in sports cars

7/18/2012 4:59:25 PM

Wait, how can something feel slower than a car that has 117ft-lbs?

7/18/2012 5:01:40 PM

117 lol. Where did that random stab in the dark come from?

7/18/2012 9:31:18 PM

^ that's like EK Civic Si numbers for torque or something

7/18/2012 10:11:44 PM

While still random in how it was mentioned, I'm pretty sure that's the torque figure for the B17A in my GS-R

7/18/2012 10:33:04 PM

I'm starting to see evidence that the FA20 engine responds really well to aftermarket tuning. Either that, or Subaru gave it a really shitty factory tune (wouldn't be the first time). Just tinkering with the stock vehicle is yielding increases of 13 whp. Headers, downpipe and cat back exhaust are yielding another 10-13 whp gain as well and another tuner is claiming 10 whp for his intake system (though that last one I haven't seen a dyno sheet for yet). Should be interesting to see what gains there are to be had when you combine all those things (obviously not 30 whp, lol). But maybe getting this engine to 230-240 hp NA isn't that difficult to do and possible for less than $3,000?

7/19/2012 12:01:41 PM