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 Message Boards » » The GOP's credibility watch Page 1 ... 100 101 102 103 [104] 105 106 107 108 ... 111, Prev Next  
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Quote :
"consciously believing whites are superior"


Clearly, that is the standard usage and definion of that label.

Quote :
"a person can have political views which are white supremacist"


And that would be the new, more liberal application of that label, that many on the left disagree with, so let's not act like this new usage is settled in academia or something.

Quote :
"So again, no one called anyone a white supremacist"


Oh, so you're still playing that game where calling someone "an agent of white supremacy" isn't calling them a white supremacist?

8/28/2018 6:39:17 PM

UJustWait84
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I usually agree with about 90% of what moron says, but this whole thing is pretty absurd.

8/28/2018 6:49:24 PM

adultswim
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^^
Do you disagree with the phrase “institutional racism” because it isn’t conscious?

8/28/2018 7:12:51 PM

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I don't disagree with that phrase at all.

8/28/2018 8:06:03 PM

adultswim
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Right, so someone who has implicit hiring biases isn't necessarily a racist, but they are contributing to systemic racism. They are committing implicitly racist acts, albeit unknowingly. Does that make them a bad person? No, of course not. But if they are presented with evidence and choose to ignore it, well that makes them an enabler.

So just apply this to policy views, it's the same concept.

And btw I had the same reaction as most of you when I was first presented this argument, I'm not a saint here.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 8:26 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2018 8:22:40 PM

moron
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Can we at least agree that Trump is a white supremacist?

8/28/2018 10:01:28 PM

Dentaldamn
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I work in the real estate realm of Nyc and no vendor trusted him before he was elected. The organization is not respected.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 10:16 PM. Reason : So...yes agreed ]

8/28/2018 10:16:11 PM

theDuke866
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^^Of course. Not like wearing bedsheets and burning crosses, or curb stomping people...but yeah, I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to apply that label to him.

8/28/2018 11:06:17 PM

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Quote :
"Right, so someone who has implicit hiring biases isn't necessarily a racist"


Obviously, but applying that thinking to something as explicit as white supremacy doesn't work. If you want to be provocative, but still be based in reality, then call the policies racist. That's all kinds of provocative, but apparently not enough for some...

8/29/2018 5:13:02 AM

TerdFerguson
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/us/politics/cia-officer-house-election-super-pac.html

Keep your eyes on this one. Depending on what truth comes out, someone could go to jail for this. This seems like a big deal for anyone that has ever applied for a security clearance. The GOP will absolutely weaponize it against you, if they think they can get away with it.

8/29/2018 8:40:55 AM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"Of course. Not like wearing bedsheets and burning crosses, or curb stomping people...but yeah, I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to apply that label to him."


Wait...you think white supremacist is an accurate label for Trump? I don't think you've thought very hard about this and I'm not sure you even believe it.

Trump may be an awful president and a bad person. He may be corrupt. He may be a liar. He may even be racist. But a white supremacist? Words and phrases lose all meaning when they're applied so recklessly.

8/30/2018 10:17:47 AM

Exiled
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He's called Nazis very fine people.

I have no problem labeling him as a white supremacist.

8/30/2018 10:24:21 AM

dtownral
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but guyz he's not a white supremacist he's just a racist who thinks white supremacists are okay and panders to them and employs them!

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 10:27 AM. Reason : /i]

8/30/2018 10:26:57 AM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"He's called Nazis very fine people."


Do you think Trump had the thought, "whoa, there are some neo-Nazis there. I'm going to call them very fine people"?

Let's just look at the quote.

Quote :
"“You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said. “The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.”

“You also had some very fine people on both sides,” he said."


If you process these words and come away saying "he called neo-Nazis fine people", there are a few possibilities:
1) You're illiterate
2) You're suffering from some sort of mental condition that impedes your reading ability
3) Your eyesight is poor and you actually do know how to read but are misreading
3) You're purposely distorting the statement to fit a narrative

I'm not defending Trump at all, but you are making some very bad arguments against Trump, which actually helps him. There are many good arguments, so use those instead.

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 10:48 AM. Reason : ]

8/30/2018 10:47:36 AM

Exiled
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That was literally a rally by white nationalists for white nationalism.

And that's just one tiny example in a plethora of others stretching back as far as when he was just NYC's problem.

8/30/2018 10:54:18 AM

dtownral
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Quote :
"I'm not defending Trump at all"


lol right here

8/30/2018 11:10:05 AM

TerdFerguson
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Quote :
"If you process these words "


Maybe if you process them only in a vacuum, I could see your argument. Personally, I threw that statement on top of the trash heap that is Trump’s past statements and actions regarding race.

Housing discrimination lawsuits -> central park 5 -> Birtherism -> Mexicans are rapists -> shithole countries -> MS-13/black inner-city fear mongering -> constantly picking on black athletes

Etc etc etc

8/30/2018 11:48:26 AM

NyM410
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I’m continually amazed how people will deny racism absent flat out seeing lynchigns or hearing “nigger.”

8/30/2018 11:59:04 AM

theDuke866
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^^^^^ I'd say that your parsing of his words has merit, except for:

1. His resistance to going back and clarifying what he said to forcefully denounce the alt-right white-supremacist types, when any idiot would have immediately gone back and said "Sorry, obviously I didn't mean that white-nationalists and outright neo-Nazis are "fine people." As I recall, it took a few days of national outrage, and then he was like "OK, OK...Nazis are bad, and they shouldn't have murdered that girl, but there were still lots of fine people."

1a. His double-emphasis, that is not apparent in the way you quoted it, that the white nationalist side had many "good people." Also, it's not like he framed a crowd of largely white nationalists as "bad" with some "very fine people" mixed in.

2. It is his MO to use this sort of coded language to serve as a subtle wink to his taboo base...like "I've gotta say some things here, but don't worry, I've still got your backs." This is one example out of many.



^^ beat me to most of it

^ yeah i understand people who aren't affected by it and aren't versed on the issue being blind to implicit racism. When I worked as an engineer in a shipyard, I had many conversations about that subject with the more blue-collar "worker-bee" crowd. They would have basically been universally disgusted by racism...but also really, really bad at recognizing it--fairly poor at recognizing overt racism with at least a modicum of subtlety (like white polo shirts and torches at a Unite The Right march--the bulk of them who weren't doing anything outright, overtly Nazi-ish), and almost totally blind to systemic, implicit racism...stuff like racial profiling, police harassment, etc.



[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 12:11 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2018 12:03:50 PM

JesusHChrist
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Anyone else slightly amused watching resident libertarian destroyer turn-in his Ron Paul t-shirt in exchange for a tiki torch?

It's incredible watching this in real time, honestly. It's almost as if the thin veneer of "libertarian", pure un-cut free market ideology was always a way of steering isolated, middle class white kids to the right and established centers of power

At least theDuke struggles with this contradiction, and is looking for ways to bandage it back together. Destroyer, on the other hand just keeps burrowing deeper into the void trying to post rationalize his racial animosity. It won't be long until he starts talking about skull shapes and declaring that certain types of humans are actually better suited to endure physical labor.

8/30/2018 2:24:10 PM

dtownral
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destroyer has shown his cards at least a few times

8/30/2018 2:31:05 PM

afripino
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is there a poll that shows which political party Neo-Nazis/klansmen/etc. support?

we all know the answer, just wondering if there's hard evidence to support it.

then the "other" party can just campaign with the slogan
"<opposition_party_here>...the preferred choice of Neo-Nazis."

you'd think that alone would help shift some shit around. or is that not enough of a swift dick-kick?

8/30/2018 2:52:36 PM

dtownral
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haven't you seen Dinesh D'Souza's new film? It's democrats who are the real racists.

8/30/2018 3:01:28 PM

NyM410
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D’Souza getting dragged by actual historians is my favorite sub-genre on the Internet right now.

8/30/2018 3:17:29 PM

thegoodlife3
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the best

8/30/2018 3:35:07 PM

d357r0y3r
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Quote :
"1a. His double-emphasis, that is not apparent in the way you quoted it, that the white nationalist side had many "good people." Also, it's not like he framed a crowd of largely white nationalists as "bad" with some "very fine people" mixed in."


I didn't quote it in any particular way. I took the two sentences that were quoted everywhere and put them next to each other. Let's look at the quote...again...

Quote :
"You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists"


This is not a neutral statement. Neo-Nazi cannot be interpreted as anything other than Very Bad. He's saying there were people at the march who were not neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Now, he turned out to basically be wrong on this point (I think there were a couple of tea-party types there, but not significant numbers), but his intent with the statement was pretty clear. The fact that he's an uninformed idiot doesn't allow us to map on some new, different intent.

I just don't see the point of making these piss poor arguments when there are real, tangible criticisms that require no distortion or sleight of hand.

Quote :
"It is his MO to use this sort of coded language to serve as a subtle wink to his taboo base...like "I've gotta say some things here, but don't worry, I've still got your backs." This is one example out of many."


Yes, this is "dog whistle" theory, which is more or less a mind reading exercise. I definitely believe that signaling is a thing, but in the majority of cases, dog whistling would be a completely irrational thing to do for a national politician. We can see this again with the latest "monkeying around" ""gaffe"" from Ron DeSantis. For that to be a racist dog whistle is, to me, beyond belief.

My generic advice is to make a sincere attempt to understand why people believe what they believe. Make a strong argument for their case, or at least the best argument you can. If your first assumption when you're faced with a new or different viewpoint is, "this person must be evil", then you're building up a very primitive mental model of the world. Even if your model is right, it's useless.

As someone that has been around a lot of kinda right-wing and very left-wing people, the vast majority on both sides have no idea why people disagree with them. It really does boil down to, "they're just bad people", which is a sad state of affairs.

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 7:58 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2018 7:56:08 PM

JesusHChrist
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Simply astounding.

8/30/2018 8:51:18 PM

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Quote :
"his intent with the statement was pretty clear"


Quote :
"Yes, this is "dog whistle" theory, which is more or less a mind reading exercise"


8/30/2018 8:53:39 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
"He's saying there were people at the march who were not neo-Nazis and white nationalists."


and who were they marching with?

8/30/2018 9:17:56 PM

d357r0y3r
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^Not everyone was marching (according to Trump - again, I don't think he had a good grasp on the situation, but that's just a completely separate failing worth discussing on its own)

^^This is not the contradiction you think it is. When someone says something, you assume their intent matches their words. If someone says, "I'm bringing burgers to the cookout", it's not mind reading to think that they're going to bring burgers. If you think that "I'm bringing burgers" is actually a dog whistle for "I implicitly support all factory farming in its current form and see nothing wrong with it", that's what I would consider mind reading.

[Edited on August 30, 2018 at 9:28 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2018 9:27:38 PM

HCH
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What Desantis said is not even close to racist. BUT DeSantis should just go on TV tomorrow and say "I'm sorry for saying monkey. I meant to say we shouldn't fuck the country up with this socialism shit." Get back on message.

8/30/2018 10:10:05 PM

moron
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^ in a vacuum it wasn't racist, but we know desantis is racist, and it seems he clearly was trying to make a racial insinuation in context of the person he is...

But it seems his goal was to get people talking about whether it's racist, rather than covering Gillum's win, and it sort of worked

8/30/2018 10:19:06 PM

HCH
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Try to understand better. He was talking about socialism and how it will fuck up this country’.

8/31/2018 12:18:01 AM

dtownral
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well god damn, tucker carlson is a socialist now:

Quote :
"Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. Many of his employees are so poor, you’re paying their welfare benefits. And he’s not the only tech billionaire offloading his payroll costs onto taxpayers. This is an indefensible scam. Why is only Bernie talking about it?"

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1035334044698009600

8/31/2018 10:40:16 AM

NyM410
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He’s right, of course, but the same can be said of Walmart and many others but won’t because the President doesn’t have a personal feud with the Waltons... yet.

8/31/2018 11:05:38 AM

dtownral
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i totally get this this is because of his personal feud, i just thought it was funny that he accidentally advocated for socialism or higher minimum wage

8/31/2018 11:10:18 AM

theDuke866
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Fuck Tucker Carson. I used to like him when he first came on the scene, with his bow-ties.

Then he totally changed teams, and also lost his fucking mind.

8/31/2018 11:54:44 AM

dtownral
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changed teams? when was he on another team?

8/31/2018 11:56:56 AM

theDuke866
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back, like, 10-12 years ago...back when he was wearing bow-ties, and I think he was on MSNBC. He definitely wasn't on Fox. He was more of a sensible (by cable news pundit standards) right-libertarian type back then.

9/1/2018 12:27:15 AM

dtownral
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He's been on CNN and MSNBC, always as the same dumb republican/libertarian he is today

9/1/2018 10:24:08 AM

colangus
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I'd love to see a big fat tumor grow in his head... Tucker that is.

9/1/2018 12:38:05 PM

NyM410
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Zombie Pat Tillman apparently hates Kaepernick just like Zombie MLK would have been a Republican.

Source: MAGAs

[Edited on September 4, 2018 at 9:30 AM. Reason : But the burning my high end athletic apparel to own the libs is a genre I don’t not like]

9/4/2018 9:29:11 AM

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https://theslot.jezebel.com/gop-official-resigns-after-calling-nfl-players-baboons-1828797970

Quote :
"added that the posts were not meant to be public—they were “the result of an ongoing family dispute."


Quote :
"“Where are we going for Thanksgiving this year?”

“How about Great Aunt Margaret’s?”

“Her gravy is shit, though.”

“I actually like Great Aunt Margaret’s gravy.”

“Fuck you, and all of the baboons in the NFL.”

“WTF, Aunt Carla?”"

9/4/2018 1:51:52 PM

rjrumfel
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He hasn't played professional sports in two years, yet is the face of a premium sports attire and equipment manufacturer.



[Edited on September 4, 2018 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/4/2018 2:24:28 PM

thegoodlife3
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9/4/2018 2:27:00 PM

rjrumfel
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Lol you're comparing him to a legend.

When was the last time you heard someone standing in line for the latest release of Kaps.

Didn't think so.

And besides, Jordan's name is on a shoe. I can't remember the last time I've seen him in a commercial.

9/4/2018 2:31:13 PM

Dentaldamn
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Apparently his jersey is selling like hot cakes.

9/4/2018 2:35:36 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^ not comparing him to anyone. just pointing out the obvious hole in your argument.
here’s another:



[Edited on September 4, 2018 at 3:02 PM. Reason : he also isn’t the face. he’s a face. ]

9/4/2018 2:45:22 PM

dtownral
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9/4/2018 3:02:36 PM

Bullet
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9/4/2018 3:10:35 PM

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