Quote :

"Also, congrats to DD for getting back to where we already were under the previous coach, I guess"

Back to where we were? This was by far the best season of any coached by DD or TOB at State. Literally millimeters (or maybe just an actual goal line cam) away from a 7-1 conference record (vs Wake). A touchdown away from playing in the ACC championship (vs Clemson). Get both of those and we'd be ranked top 10.

I know being close but not getting it done is disappointing to those who thought they would be able to do those things, but most people didn't actually think we'd be anywhere near that close this year.

I said at the beginning of the season, I think we would have beaten South Carolina if we had played the two cupcake games first to get into a groove, and I still believe Emezie was in at Wake Forest. ND and Clemson were games we were supposed to lose, and other than the pick-6 screwup we were competitive in both.

Great season, and I'm excited for whatever bowl we might get (even with the Wake loss we're the #3 team in the ACC, #4 if ND takes one of our spots)

[Edited on November 26, 2017 at 8:57 PM. Reason : -]

11/26/2017 8:56:41 PM

Get excited for the sun bowl brah

11/26/2017 9:09:32 PM

DD has a really solid recruiting class coming in next year. That's really impressive considering most coaches at NCSU only get those type of recruits for their first two years from the recruiting bump that being a new coach gives you.

[Edited on November 26, 2017 at 9:39 PM. Reason : ]

11/26/2017 9:38:25 PM

To play devil's advocate:

Quote :

"This was by far the best season of any coached by DD or TOB at State."

If we lose our bowl game and finish 8-5, will this season be "by far" better than TOB's 9-4 season?

Also, I know we were super close to getting a couple more wins and having a miracle season, but we were probably also an FSU QB non-injury and a long Hines TD from being 4-4 in conference.

I don't want him fired, don't misconstrue it, but I guess I'm also not as pumped up and excited as some about the difference in a 6-2 conference record and a 5-3 conference record, when they were both good for 2nd place in the division. Next season will be very telling.

11/26/2017 9:42:41 PM

Quote :

"If we lose our bowl game and finish 8-5, will this season be "by far" better than TOB's 9-4 season?"

Well that's obviously no, but the real question is even if we win is this season "by far" better, and if so by what metric?

Quote :

"Also, I know we were super close to getting a couple more wins and having a miracle season, but we were probably also an FSU QB non-injury and a long Hines TD from being 4-4 in conference."

IMO those arguments are both silly, which I'd imagine you're in agreement with.

11/26/2017 11:01:58 PM

For some more perspective, we haven't finished .750 in ACC basketball since 1989.

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 12:25 AM. Reason : people acting like this is no big deal when we're a bball school who hasnt even done it in bball]

11/27/2017 12:21:13 AM

Cool meaningless fact

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 12:23 AM. Reason : I got Earl'd]

11/27/2017 12:23:31 AM

For some more perspective, we haven't finished .000 in basketball since 1912

If 6-2 meant we were playing Miami this coming Saturday, people would be ecstatic. Instead, it's just 1 more conference win than we had during a different season earlier in this same 2010s decade. But we're supposed to think it's some turning point in the program that we're lucky to experience? I saw Rivers lead us to 11 wins this century and this season ain't shit compared to that one.

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 12:44 AM. Reason : add another note]

11/27/2017 12:36:33 AM

I wonder if synapse is the real earl.

Quote :

" this season ain't shit compared to that one."

So let me get this straight. 3rd place in the ACC at 6-2 "aint shit compared to" 4th place in the old acc at 5-3. Sounds like a double standard to me. Your new standard is that we win the conference to be happy when you were happy with 4th place in the rivers days.

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 1:06 AM. Reason : take me back to those wins vs new mexico, navy, umass, east tennessee state]

11/27/2017 12:42:52 AM

tell me more about the doeren acc championship

11/27/2017 1:07:08 AM

Quote :

"I saw Rivers lead us to 11 wins this century and this season ain't shit compared to that one."

I'm not comparing this to the Rivers era, just to everything we've seen since Chuck was chucked.

I saw us get blown out by 30 something points to non-P5 teams this century. So I'm going to be grateful for a good season when I can get one.

11/27/2017 1:24:37 AM

This is the most stable this program has been since the Sheridan years (and possibly better considering the competition we're up against). We had some good years with Rivers/Amato...but we were still a clusterfuck and unpredictable.

If you can't see that our program is better off than it's been in 20 years...than I don't know what to tell you.

+1 Credibility

11/27/2017 8:24:59 AM

I mean, was the Rivers season not just as big of a letdown as this year?

Rivers had us top 10 sitting at 9-0, and then we lost to 3 straight unranked ACC teams before beating a good ND team in the bowl game after knocking their starting QB out in the 1st quarter.

The only bad loss on our schedule this year was Wake, and that was by a fluke dropped TD play. The other 3 losses were to teams that were ranked at some point during the season and 2 of them have been top 10 for a good portion of the season.

I think everyone is focused on not playing in the ACC Championship game more than the impact this season had on our national image. We were ranked in the CFP rankings for the first time since it started, we were talked about a LOT this season and we have multiple guys looking at potential All-American status. Recruiting has definitely benefited from this and I can't remember the buzz around the team being any higher in the last 30 years other than the 1 Rivers 11 win season and the 1 Wilson season where we choked at Maryland and missed our chance to win the Atlantic.

This was a successful season and Doeren deserves a good portion of the credit for that. He got his automatic 1-year extension, now work on locking up our assistants and getting raises for guys like Ledford and Kitchings. Keep working with the young guys with the bowl practices, keep recruiting, win your bowl game and finish out your signing class strong. Also, try to convince Finley, Richardson, Hines, and Roseboro that they would benefit from another year.

11/27/2017 8:26:12 AM

This is the equivalent of TOB's 2010 season.

2010 Sagarin Rating: 82.85/18 overall
2010 S&P+ Rating: 8.0/34 overall
2010 FPI Rating: 11.6/26 overall

2017 Sagarin Rating: 81.51/24 overall
2017 S&P+ Rating: 4.8/45 overall
2017 FPI Rating: 12.4/22 overall

We were one win away from the ACC championship game in 2010 (lost 38-31 to Maryland).

The 6 wins is the only notable difference between this year and 2010 but I think that's more of a statement over the top-end strength of the ACC is down this year and us missing Miami or Virginia Tech in the cross-division match-up.

----

Not calling for DD to be fired or anything like that, just think the six ACC wins accomplishment is much like Fedora's 11 win season in 2015 and is more of a product of the schedule we've played then anything else.

Any idea when the bowl game will be scheduled? After the ACC championship game, right?

11/27/2017 8:54:24 AM

Quote :

"The only bad loss on our schedule this year was Wake,"

honestly not sure i'd call wake truly a bad loss. we shoulda won that game...but they're solid this year. we were underdogs. that's not the wake forest team from, say, 2 year sago

11/27/2017 9:25:40 AM

I would have said the Wake loss was against a solid team. But then they went ahead and lost to a horrible Duke team.

I can accept the narrow losses to Wake and SC. If we build on that and improve next year then hell yeah! And if we don't, then I'll feel it's just more of the same - that we cannot get over the "hump" and actually be a consistently solid top 25 team.

11/27/2017 9:29:21 AM

Yeah next year we probably won’t go 6-2 in acc...but we can’t drop back to 6-6/3-5 either. Need to keep some positive momentum going.

11/27/2017 9:32:28 AM

If Finley goes 1st round and we don't regress back to 6-6 next year with the wins only being OOC scrubs+a 3-5 conference record, then he's got something here. If not, it's same old TOB/OCain shit. Would really prefer 5-3 in the league or better. We should be able to win at least the 2-3 division games against weak teams, plus UVA and UNC and maybe UL too (I expect FSU will rebound). Sustaining at 8 wins is not unreasonable with our schedule (the only OOC challenge is WVU at home).

I don't think it's unreasonable to want 8 wins again given we don't play ND, VT, or Miami. That goes for the next few years. We dont see any of them til next decade.Somewhere in there he needs to get into the division top 3 on a sustained basis. That would show that we're sustaining.

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 9:52 AM. Reason : V]

11/27/2017 9:48:23 AM

^that seems like a reasonable take...but why does it hinge on Finley going in the 1st round? or did i just read that wrong?

11/27/2017 9:59:12 AM

^^
Next year's schedule:

ACC home: Florida State, Boston College, Wake Forest, Virginia
ACC away: Clemson, Louisville, Syracuse, North Carolina
Non-conference: West Virginia, at Marshall, Georgia State, James Madison

Crazy that you have to go back to Dick Sheridan to find consecutive years of finishing above .500 in the conference. I think we can do it next year IF we return everyone and have the same injury luck as this year.

11/27/2017 10:12:00 AM

You never can tell until you see them in action, but if Leary is even decent we should be able to keep the ball rolling with this group of skill players. Getting Finley for one more season and redshirting him would be so perfect though.

11/27/2017 10:12:32 AM

is finley still expected to go? i know there were high expectations earlier in the season, but i thought his prospects had dropped

11/27/2017 10:33:51 AM

I guess producing another starting QB in the NFL was what I intended to mean. That only helps recruiting.

Of course I hope he returns.

11/27/2017 11:18:07 AM

^ yeah ok, i understand what you're saying there.

^^unsure if he's "expected" to go but he's still being mocked pretty high so it probably shouldn't come as a surprise if he does go.

^^^i'd be hesitant about a true freshman coming and starting right away...although we should still have a strong OLine and great WRs so that's gotta help a frosh QB. is Leary gonna enroll early?
we'd also have Jalan McLendon (has barely played his whole career, i've got little confidence in him but he's got a lotta tools they say) and Matt McKay (redshirting this year) that could be options if Finley leaves.

it's soooo early but i could see 3-1 vs that home ACC slate and 2-2 vs the road ACC slate and maybe 3-1 OOC. that'd be 8-4/5-3. again...way too early predictions so who knows

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 12:59 PM. Reason : u]

11/27/2017 12:58:14 PM

I see at the very least an 8-4/5-3 record in that schedule, even if FSU and Louisville both have bounce-back years.

11/27/2017 12:58:47 PM

Rumors around the team suggest that Finley is going pro unless his feedback is really bad from the NFL. My guess is he'll be a 3rd rounder and he'll go pro(he already has his graduate degree). Some team will take him and let him sit a year or two to see if he can develop. One big concern he'll have is that I imagine most cold-weather teams are going to pass on him completely after how bad he looked in his only 2 cold-weather games this year.

Leary won't start next year barring a lot of injuries. Ideally our 1,2,3 next year would be Finley, McClendon, McKay and Leary would RS and then come in to compete as a RS-FR. If Finley goes pro I think you'll see a competition between McClendon and McKay with hopes of RS'ing Leary but an injury or two could have him in the game.

Guessing we'll lose Finley and Roseboro early, but I'd also lookout for Richardson to consider going pro. Hopefully Hines elects to stay, if he goes we're toast for next year.

If Richardson stays our OL should be just as good as the last 2 years for whoever our QB is, plus we should have plenty of talent at the skill positions even after losing Samuels. Our D will be a huge question mark, but I don't think we'll be completely rebuilding with all FR and RS-FR like we did a few years ago, should be able to plug-in some JUCO and upperclassmen to help ease the transition.

^FSU is absolutely going to be better next year. They had too much talent to be as awful as they were this year and Blackman has actually looked good at times.

Teams I expect to be worse next year: UL, Cuse, Wake
Teams I expect to be better next year: FSU, UNC, BC
Teams I expect to be similar next year: Clemson, UVA

Based just on paper, I think 7-8 wins and +.500 in the ACC should be very achievable. Problem is even if we have surpassed UL as the #3 team in the Atlantic, Clemson isn't slowing down(KB back and Lawrence looks to be the real deal at QB) and FSU can't be a complete trainwreck 2 seasons in a row.

11/27/2017 1:54:58 PM

Quote :

"even if FSU and Louisville both have bounce-back years"

UL bouncing back from what? most years they're gonna be a 8 or 9 win team. i know expectations were high with Lamar Jackson...but assuming he goes pro this year, i don't think anybody's gonna expect them to improve next year. truth is, in most years i'd expect UL to be closer to our equal than our superior in the division

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 3:30 PM. Reason : and yeah fsu is definitely bouncing back.]

11/27/2017 3:29:50 PM

Quote :

"Teams I expect to be worse next year: UL, Cuse, Wake Teams I expect to be better next year: FSU, UNC, BC Teams I expect to be similar next year: Clemson, UVA "

To this end, I looked at how many of a teams all acc performers are gone (seniors only, not including early entry)

Cuse 100% (5 players all seniors)
Lou 1/7 (although prob safe to assume Lamar is gone)
Wake 4/12 (4/6 from 1st/2nd)
UNC 1/4 (can't expect them to have as many injuries next year either)
FSU 1/6 (derwin gone? Plus they get francois back right?)
BC 3/9 (all from 3rd/hon)
UVA 2/7 (only 2 1st's)
Clem 3/18!! (pray for early entries)

Wake and UVA also have senior qb's. Everyone else brings back a qb that played this year (pitt is weird since Browne is a Sr but qbs that faced us and qb that beat Miami come back).

Obviously there are other factors but I think I agree with the post except that UVA might get worse losing qb and two best players.

We on the other hand are 4/11 and our QB comes back.



Edit: big 12 isn't out yet but WVU gets their qb back and 2 if their big 3 wrs (all had at least 978 yards) but lose their 1000 yd rusher

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 4:46 PM. Reason : E]

11/27/2017 4:38:13 PM

Quote :

" our QB comes back."

Maybe. I don't think he's a first round prospect, but teams are weird and do things like draft Blaine Gabbert in the first round, so you never know. He definitely will have to increase his arm strength in order to succeed in the NFL, though.

11/27/2017 4:57:07 PM

Yea and clemson prob loses a few 2, I said I'm mostly ignoring early entrants. I mentioned a couple that seem like sure things in Lamar and Derwin. Maybe Wilkins or someone else is a sure thing?

I don't view any State guys as sure things

11/27/2017 5:23:51 PM

just thank god renfrow is gone. irreplaceable.

11/27/2017 6:08:12 PM

Recent history has shown NFL teams willing to take risks on NC State QBs.

11/27/2017 6:36:38 PM

Yeah, 3rd round risks.

[Edited on November 27, 2017 at 6:38 PM. Reason : Which is probably where Finley should be drafted.]

11/27/2017 6:38:34 PM

And if that’s where he’s gonna get drafted, he probably should go. He’s a 5th year junior and I’m not sure he can improve his draft stock a ton - although his poor finish (compared to great start) might hurt

11/27/2017 6:45:01 PM

He did the exact same thing last year. Crazy good numbers to start, bad games against some of the good teams. He clearly improved this year on his downfield accuracy, but still has plenty of room for improvement.

His best skill is probably his pre-snap reading of a defense. He can find mismatches and knows to get the ball to that guy. On the other hand, he does have a tendency to stare down the receiver he wants to throw to. He has a chance to develop into an NFL starter in a few years but if a team drafts him and throws him in the fire he'll flame out pretty quickly I'd guess.

11/27/2017 6:55:25 PM

Roseboro is the main one we need to stay. Already losing the whole starting line. Seems like he could see Chubb's success and take on the main guy role. But with his dad dying who knows maybe he needs to go.

11/27/2017 9:35:41 PM

any of the likely guys to go would hurt, but richardson on the OLine is especially important, imo. especially if finley goes...if we're breaking in a new QB, we'll need the OL to remain strong.

11/28/2017 7:01:41 AM

Look we need everyone to come back. We're on a knifes edge anyway and don't have the depth of a clemson or a fsu

11/28/2017 8:14:53 AM

Roseboro reportedly wanted to go pro LAST year if he could, and based on his recent tweets, I take it he's going pro. Was hoping Chubb coming back and blowing up would entice him to come back but don't know his family situation.

Richardson is the biggest question mark for me. We absolutely need him, but he's had a ton of off-the-field issues and he graded out really well this year, so I could see him taking his chances and going pro even if he's a 5th rounder.

Finley is likely gone. I think he's a 3rd rounder barring a ton of QBs coming back for a senior season, but he's already finished grad school, so I can't blame him for going pro.

No one is talking about the one really scary player that COULD go pro early and would completely ruin our season next year if he did...and that's Hines. He's eligible, he's coming off 1,000+ yards and 1st team All-ACC despite missing games and being banged up for a few.

If I had to rank them by who I'd want back, it would be Hines, Richardson, Finley, Roseboro. I feel like our D as a whole is going to struggle next year(not that it was great this year) but if we don't at least have an offense to carry us, we're going to struggle big time.

11/28/2017 8:36:31 AM

I'm not sure why you think Hines would ruin our season but Finley would be NBD

11/28/2017 9:38:07 AM

^yeah you nailed it with ^^^...really need them all to come back.

11/28/2017 9:43:23 AM

I'm old enough to remember Sheridan.

If he can win 7-8 games, sometimes 9, for 7 straight years or whatever like Sheridan, great. His problem was always being unprepared for bowls. So I'd really like to win a GOOD bowl game this year to show we're better off than TOB.

Note I said good bowl. Beating a Mullin-free MSU won't count. That's why I want some bowl NOT against the SEC, since that's the best opponent I keep seeing pop up.

I think we're likely playing a 7 win team, but if it's an Iowa or an Oregon, I like that.

11/28/2017 10:01:00 AM

^^^Because I think Hines is more pivotal to our offense than Finley. I also think the step down from Hines to Gallaspy is worse than from Finley to McClendon/McKay.

We had Finley and our entire OL + Samuels this year and you saw how bad we struggled without Hines. Hines is a difference maker at RB and KR. I think the results on the field show just how irreplaceable he was for us this year. Our return game was 0 threat without him and our offense stumbled without him.

I'd love to have both back, but if I had to choose between Finley and Hines, I'd probably pick Hines and hope McKay is as good as the staff has said.

11/28/2017 10:09:56 AM

bowl games are glorified scrimmages. it's fun to win, sucks to lose and ultimately doesn't mean much. i feel like you're putting a little too much stock into the result of a bowl. of course i wanna win, but the bowl game isn't what makes or breaks the season.

11/28/2017 10:25:38 AM

Our non Hines return stats aren't all that different than our Hines return stats.

But the real thing is, you have a data point for Hines missing from offense but not much data for Finley going missing. McClendons only field appearance in a real situation this year resulted in a false start. McKay is a complete unknown but he wasn't exactly a superstar recruit. He seems similar to Blackmon, skinny kid that supposedly has an arm. I hadn't heard coaches saying he was next in line, I had assumed that was Leary's role to lose. Regardless, a RS or true freshman is almost guaranteed to be a big step down from an established starter good enough to be drafted.

I also think Hines is much less likely to go mostly bc he is too small, but we need all 4 to stay. We also saw what happened without Richardson against SC.

11/28/2017 10:39:20 AM

i've got no real confidence in mclendon if he's the starter next year. i'd love to be wrong if finley does go.

11/28/2017 11:15:16 AM

I have never seen mcclendon complete a downfield pass. If finley goes, i wouldnt be surprised if mckay or leary were our starter next year.

11/28/2017 12:08:15 PM

If we keep Finley, Hines, Roseboro, and Richardson from going pro...we will can be just as good, if not better, than this past year. Our O-line could be better (only lose Adams...and Fedd Jackson looked great on Saturday...as well as our other back-up lineman have been solid when needed this year). Our WRs are STOUT...and Finley was great this year. Hines is Hines.

I think Roseboro is the one we can afford to lose the most...but he would still be a big hit. I think I saw somewhere that he's dating a Women's basketball player who is still in school...so maybe that cutty will keep him in Raleigh for another year.

[Edited on November 28, 2017 at 12:15 PM. Reason : .]

11/28/2017 12:14:35 PM

Quote :

"bowl games are glorified scrimmages. it's fun to win, sucks to lose and ultimately doesn't mean much. i feel like you're putting a little too much stock into the result of a bowl. of course i wanna win, but the bowl game isn't what makes or breaks the season."

I'd say half the bowl games can be that big final push into signing day for recruits for power five teams. You want to be trending up into January with a few consecutive wins rather than limping in to the offseason. For us last year, where we were at 11:59 a.m. on the Friday of Thanksgiving week to where we were 5 minutes after thrashing Vanderbilt was night and day for a host of reasons. The garbage non power five games before Christmas are closer to scrimmages.

11/28/2017 12:20:51 PM

Quote :

"@BruceFeldmanCFB I’m told #Tennessee is pursuing #okstate’s Mike Gundy as GoPokes has reported. Sources also tells me the #Vols have reached out to #Purdue’s Jeff Brohm & #NCState’s Dave Doeren in their coaching search."

11/28/2017 12:44:22 PM