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 Message Boards » » Dave Doeren Credibility Watch Page 1 ... 114 115 116 117 [118] 119, Prev Next  
jocristian
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Quote :
"wait you want Keatts fired but you don't want Doeren fired? That's fucking wild to me."


I don't really give a fuck about football. I don't think we are a football school and I think we don't really have the resources to be a perennial contender. I watch most of the ACC games and generally pay attention to what's going on but I don't know anything about offenses/defenses, recruiting, etc. I am ambivalent about Doeren. I highly doubt we have a much higher ceiling with him than what we are right now. I don't think he is the guy, but I simply don't care enough to want him fired.

On the other hand, I think that our bball program is a sleeping giant with the right coach. I like basketball more and watch almost every minute of every game. I read and pay attention much more closely. I don't recall actively calling for Keatts' firing, but I have been critical of his coaching this year. His team building has been pretty suspect, his playing time decisions up until the last few games have been awful, and his offense is reliably stagnant at times. It baffles me that it took him until last week to let the freshmen loose and allow BB to play role player minutes. I'm not sure he is the guy either and all the covid shit gives him a built in excuse so he gets another year regardless of what I think.


^ Not sure what is hard to understand, we have gotten blown out by Clemson since Doeren has been here (save for one OT game a few years ago IIRC). To be fair, that's true of most of the ACC, but given that we can't seem to really be even competitive from time to time with them is frustrating for the fans that I talk to.

[Edited on February 26, 2021 at 4:12 PM. Reason : d]

2/26/2021 4:11:47 PM

rwoody
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2015-2017 MOL was 14, 7 and 7

2/26/2021 4:43:25 PM

cptinsano
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"I think that our bball program is a sleeping giant with the right coach"

Dumb things fans should stop saying about every team that won a championship before they were born.

2/27/2021 12:10:10 PM

GenghisJohn
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^ agreed

sleeping giant, fucking lol

2/27/2021 8:56:42 PM

jocristian
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ok geniuses... name a school with a greater disparity between on court results over the last 20 years and fan base passion/facilities/resources for a program. It’s a short list.

It has nothing to do with the past results, other than perhaps some of the fanbase support is there indirectly because of those championships.

[Edited on February 28, 2021 at 9:03 AM. Reason : D]

2/28/2021 8:58:34 AM

dmspack
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Are our facilities and resources that great? I know it’s hard to quantify but are our resources and facilities far above the average for P5 schools? And this question can apply to both football or basketball. Seems like our fans bring up our facilities a lot but in football the only major improvement in the last 15 years is the indoor practice facility, right? Our basketball arena is nice but it’s 20+ years old now and is an off campus arena shared with a hockey team and it’s probably about too big for 90% of our games. I know we have the Dail practice facility but I’ve got no clue if that’s state of the art or just average. I’m not trying to shit on our facilities or anything. Just genuinely curious if there’s really anything special about our facilities compared to our peers.

2/28/2021 10:24:00 AM

GenghisJohn
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right i think you are really over valuing our facilities and fanbase. its natural i'm sure but there are plenty of other programs out there that can compete with us and dont have unc and duke right next door

[Edited on February 28, 2021 at 11:55 AM. Reason : our FUHCILITIES]

2/28/2021 11:54:47 AM

packboozie
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Our Basketball program is easily a top 25 job. Football is not and be in the 30-60 range IMO.

PNC Arena holds just under 20,000. Our arena is better than anyone in the ACC save UNC, Syracuse, and maybe Virginia. Lots of these schools play in shitholes half the size of PNC (BC, VT, Miami, FSU, Clemson). That is what irks me to no end. FSU has a great program and they draw dick for attendance. We are usually top 10 in the country in attendance. Top 20 in bad years like Gott last two seasons. Support is most definitely there.

The right coach most certainly could win ACC titles and make Final Fours for basketball.

The right coach for football could be a consistent 9-3 team. Basically where Sheridan had it.

3/2/2021 11:34:53 PM

rwoody
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The claim that we are top 25 job is not supported by any evidence

3/3/2021 12:04:56 AM

justinh524
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Having a big arena =/ having a good arena

3/3/2021 1:07:11 AM

packboozie
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We have been top 25 in attendance every single year since moving to PNC. A few years top ten in the nation.

We have never been close in football.

Show evidence we aren't a top 25 job.

3/3/2021 1:27:51 AM

TreeTwista10
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Quote :
"Seating capacity is the number of people who can be seated in a specific space, in terms of both the physical space available, and limitations set by law. Seating capacity can be used in the description of anything ranging from an automobile that seats two to a stadium that seats hundreds of thousands of people."

3/3/2021 1:48:27 AM

dmspack
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Quote :
"We have been top 25 in attendance every single year since moving to PNC. A few years top ten in the nation.

We have never been close in football.
"


lol we average like 75% capacity in basketball.

we average well over 90% in football.

all of those top 25 stats are based solely on stadium capacity, not %. we out-draw duke in basketball in every year. that doesn't mean shit, though.

the reality is, our basketball arena is too big. if we were building it today we'd probably want something like 15k capacity rather than 20k.

i agree with your overall claim that our basketball program is better positioned for long term success than our football program...i think most fans would agree with that

[Edited on March 3, 2021 at 6:44 AM. Reason : f]

3/3/2021 6:42:14 AM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Show evidence we aren't a top 25 job."


The fact that our last 5 coaches have not been top 25 coaches (I guess jury is still out on KK). The fact that the last 5 coaches have been hired from low-mid majors or out of college ball. Our revenue also isn't anywhere near top 25 which affects the salary we can offer

[Edited on March 3, 2021 at 7:50 AM. Reason : E]

3/3/2021 7:45:11 AM

Dynasty2004
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Quote :
"We have been top 25 in attendance every single year since moving to PNC. A few years top ten in the nation."



more people = higher attendance.

[Edited on March 3, 2021 at 8:12 AM. Reason : forgot how to quote. ]

3/3/2021 8:12:23 AM

StTexan
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Quote :
" i agree with your overall claim that our basketball program is better positioned for long term success than our football program..."


Not saying too much. It feels like every year we get the best class ever and then its suckage. For like 5 coaches or so like other user sais

3/3/2021 8:47:00 PM

packboozie
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^^^Lee Fowler hiring literally the worst coach in NBA history doesn't change how good our job is.

Quote :
"lol we average like 75% capacity in basketball.

we average well over 90% in football."



PNC is one of the biggest in the nation. C-F is average. Almost all BIG and SEC are bigger except for the Vandy's of the world. You are making my point for me.

3/4/2021 10:24:55 AM

rwoody
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Is attendance even top 5 in things a coach considers?

3/4/2021 10:36:37 AM

jocristian
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Maybe not directly, but if I was a coach, I would certainly be interested in fan support as a factor for my success.

3/4/2021 11:02:00 AM

rwoody
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I honestly don't think fan support is even that high in success, I bet it isn't top 5 for recruits either.

And the flip side at nc state is that the fans have a certain reputation. An unfair one, but still its there.

But anyway for coaches I think it's clear the number one driver is money, just like with any job

[Edited on March 4, 2021 at 11:06 AM. Reason : E]

3/4/2021 11:05:49 AM

GenghisJohn
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if we were a top 25 job we would have hit on one of our top choices for coach in the past 15 years.

rick barnes repeatedly told us to fuck off and yet Tennessee hired him.

we havent won shit in forever and these kids we are recruiting now were born right around when we hired Sid.

a "sleeping giant" is a program that with a few tweaks, the right coach, and some excitement combines to snowball momentum that was previously dormant for the program. And there aren't a lot of them out there. Alabama football pre Saban was a sleeping giant. Texas football is a sleeping giant right now. Kentucky basketball with Billy Gillispie (and maybe second half of Tubby's tenure) was a sleeping giant.

NC State is not a sleeping giant. I think it's easy to squint and say Everett Case and David Thompson and Survive and Advance and these excellent highlights of our history put us in the same conversation as a giant program, but that's just not the case. If we were a giant then 1983 wouldn't have been as incredible as it was, because a giant is expected to dominate.

3/4/2021 11:31:51 AM

packboozie
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Quote :
"Is attendance even top 5 in things a coach considers?"


If you are a candidate for the Boston College or NC State basketball job, you telling me that the fact that they can barely get a few thousand people to watch them would not factor into your decision?

3/4/2021 11:56:03 AM

GenghisJohn
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i think the point is that for a top 25 job it is assumed that people are going to the games and its not something that really factors in a coaches decision.

the coaches folks are talking about here wouldn't be in your hypothetical scenario choosing between BC and us

3/4/2021 12:04:42 PM

rwoody
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^^I didn't say anything close to that

3/4/2021 12:09:09 PM

thegoodlife3
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" Our arena is better than anyone in the ACC save UNC, Syracuse, and maybe Virginia. Lots of these schools play in shitholes half the size of PNC (BC, VT, Miami, FSU, Clemson)"


late to this, but lol

3/4/2021 12:15:15 PM

packboozie
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I forgot about the Yum Center for Louisville.

Having been to most of these, I would love to hear your opinion of lol. Those I listed are terrible compared to PNC.

3/4/2021 12:49:27 PM

rwoody
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How many coaches or recruits do you think would pick PNC over Cameron

3/4/2021 12:56:53 PM

thegoodlife3
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^^ the Dean Dome is a dump

the Carrier Dome is a 40 year old football stadium

PNC is a bland shell of an arena that’s too big for basketball

I’ve heard nothing but great things about John Paul Jones arena, plus it was built for basketball

[Edited on March 4, 2021 at 12:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2021 12:57:59 PM

synapse
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Quote :
"Our Basketball program is easily a top 25 job"


Quote :
"The claim that we are top 25 job is not supported by any evidence"


Quote :
"Show evidence we aren't a top 25 job"

3/4/2021 1:04:27 PM

dmspack
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^^ yeah being “half the size of pnc” isn’t necessarily a bad thing. We don’t need pnc to be nearly as big as it is.

Quote :
" PNC is one of the biggest in the nation. C-F is average. Almost all BIG and SEC are bigger except for the Vandy's of the world. You are making my point for me."


What point am I making for you? I truly don’t know your point. That arena size is an indicator of how good your job is? We have a giant basketball arena that we can’t fill...that doesn’t really mean much. The fact that the arena is so large is mostly a product of the time in which it was built and because it’s not solely a bball arena.


[Edited on March 4, 2021 at 1:22 PM. Reason : D]

3/4/2021 1:18:14 PM

rwoody
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The 3rd tier could be permanently filled with covid cutouts and nobody that matters would ever notice or care. The only factor would be reduction in revenue.

3/4/2021 1:26:25 PM

packboozie
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For the success of our team, I would say our basketball attendance is pretty solid. It may not seem "full" because of all the corporate seats in primary spots that go unused.

My point is that our basketball arena is good by most standards and we could be top ten in attendance. Even if C-F is full every single game, we are not even top 25.

Not sure why we are debating this. We are a middle of the road team in both sports and seemed destined to stay there.

3/4/2021 1:28:03 PM

thegoodlife3
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I’m curious to know why you referenced the other three arenas earlier

3/4/2021 1:32:24 PM

packboozie
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UVA, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville are the arenas I would rate as better than ours. Duke sure because of the bullshit nostalgia.

We are clearly ahead of VT, Clemson, Wake, Pitt, GT, Miami, FSU, BC, ND.

3/4/2021 1:35:41 PM

thegoodlife3
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I can barely fathom someone going to a game at the Dean Dome and thinking it’s a better arena than ours

and while I’ve never been to the Carrier Dome, there is zero chance that a game inside a 40 year old football stadium is better than a game at PNC

3/4/2021 1:44:53 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Not sure why we are debating this. We are a middle of the road team in both sports and seemed destined to stay there.

"


BC you said this is a tip 25 job and the only reason you'd gave is the arena (5th best in acc??) and attendance

3/4/2021 1:48:22 PM

cptinsano
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Quote :
"name a school with a greater disparity between on court results over the last 20 years and fan base passion/facilities/resources for a program"

This is a fun one to think about. Who else sucks but has fans that think they are a sleeping giant and dump money into facilities/ "resources" ?

Top of my head:

Indiana Basketball
Marquette Basketball
Georgetown Basketball
$Texas A&M Basketball
Maryland Basketball (on the edge of the 20 year window)

3/4/2021 2:03:15 PM

synapse
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damn boozie getting some nice run in here

3/4/2021 2:30:05 PM

StTexan
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Marquette got me a work pool once, i think they were 14 and i had them going a few rounds. Much love

3/4/2021 4:00:36 PM

TreeTwista10
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don't forget muh Vawls

3/4/2021 4:29:20 PM

cptinsano
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muh sleeping giant

3/4/2021 4:39:05 PM

Kickstand
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PNC is a fantastic college bb arena when completely full. Unfortunately I have maybe experienced this on 2 occasions.

3/4/2021 9:53:57 PM

justinh524
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I don't think any non-basketball specific arena is a fantastic college basketball venue, but that's just my two cents. The upper level is just too far away from the action.

3/4/2021 11:44:40 PM

TreeTwista10
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Our basketball arena isn't even our best basketball arena

3/5/2021 4:28:15 AM

cptinsano
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Dave Doeren is going to be so confused when he comes on here to check his credibility.

3/5/2021 7:19:45 AM

dmspack
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Quote :
" My point is that our basketball arena is good by most standards and we could be top ten in attendance. Even if C-F is full every single game, we are not even top 25. "


But that’s almost entirely a product of the arena just being big. I don’t really understand the fixation on attendance numbers. If we’re talking about fan support I think % capacity is probably a better indicator. And fundraising too. We have more fans/game than Michigan State...does that mean our fans are better than MSU’s? I don’t really think it proves anything. If we’re talking about the actual facilities, then attendance doesnt factor into how good or not good our facilities are. And facilities also encompass more than just the arena/stadium.

Fan support is a small part of what can make a job appealing. But also administration’s support and money would seem to matter more.

3/5/2021 8:39:54 AM

synapse
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Quote :
"I don’t really understand the fixation on attendance numbers"


It's called trolling

3/5/2021 9:20:33 AM

dmspack
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Yeah I know but damn I get sucked in every time

3/5/2021 9:53:35 AM

justinh524
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Quote :
"We have more fans/game than Michigan State...does that mean our fans are better than MSU’s? "


Unequivocally yes

3/5/2021 10:19:17 AM

TreeTwista10
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It's not trolling. boozie thinks having larger concourses and concession stands is going to make a head coach think more highly of our program than other programs.

3/5/2021 10:20:51 AM

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