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 Message Boards » » 2024 General Election Thread Page 1 2 3 4 [5], Prev  
qntmfred
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Quote :
"Payments to more people -> more competition for basic goods and services -> costs of those goods go up to match demand -> UBI payments cease to yield substantial enough income for those on the lower tier"


UBI or not, we need to produce sufficient basic goods and services to meet the needs of the population. pricing for these basic goods and services is almost entirely a function of the efficiency of our supply chains, production processes and distribution networks. if we're efficiently producing enough of what people need to survive, UBI does NOT cause inflation, especially a UBI that is paid for (for example by a VAT as taxes essentially pull money out of circulation). Same reason nobody talks about minimum wage increases being inflationary. The benefits of UBI for society far outpaces any potential negatives. The Expanded Child Tax Credit of 2021 lifted millions of children out of poverty. Smart investments in our people are good things to do, period. The majority of inflation we've been experiencing is caused by ongoing global supply chain disruptions, increased corporate profits, and yes some via monetary policy over the last 2 years.



this thread isn't about UBI tho. happy to move this conversation to another thread if you like.

I also bumped another thread about 3rd parties to talk about the Forward Party for those who were commenting.

[Edited on July 29, 2022 at 2:36 PM. Reason : y'all can go back to talking about Biden vs Trump/DeSantis here ig]

7/29/2022 2:33:06 PM

Geppetto
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I'll address it here and then move to the other thread. After all, TWW is the interwebs and I can't allow for a post to look like it went unanswered.

Quote :
"UBI or not, we need to produce sufficient basic goods and services to meet the needs of the population. pricing for these basic goods and services is almost entirely a function of the efficiency of our supply chains, production processes and distribution networks."


Yes, I agree that major cost inputs are a major factor of pricing. Efficiency is part of it but there are also maximum thresholds for efficiency, based on existing technological states. That's a realistic barrier that can't be ignored. And sure, it improves and as it does total factor productivity moves upwward, often increasing profitability but not necessarily having an impact on prices e.g. record profitability rather than slashing prices. Put differently, TFP impacts economic growth not consumer prices. See historical TFP increases compared to prices of essentially everything over time.


Quote :
"if we're efficiently producing enough of what people need to survive, UBI does NOT cause inflation, especially a UBI that is paid for (for example by a VAT as taxes essentially pull money out of circulation)."


UBI still can, and would likely, cause inflation in this scenario. Unless we're nationalizing production and making sure there are enough goods for everyone, companies are incentivized to maximize profits and will temper supply and raise prices when more individuals demand goods. OPEC could easily release the flood gates on oil right now, but they don't, because low supply + high demand is good for them. This has nothing to do with the efficiency. The VAT example is also flawed. 1) Stimulus checks create demand and can spur inflation. These checks are paid by taxes. It's the same principle here. 2) VAT on goods will increase the price of items, which consumers will view as inflation, even if it isn't technically so.


Quote :
"Same reason nobody talks about minimum wage increases being inflationary."


Except for people do talk about that as a reason to not have an increased national wage or a minimum wage at all. It's spoken less so about minimum wage because it's a few extra dollars per hour and is taxed income, so the impact is pretty small. Recent wage increases in a tight labor market have certainly gotten the lion's share of the inflationary discussion, but people do talk about minimum wage and inflation because it creates more demand for basic services/goods that all people need. Demand that can't readjust overnight and in turn causes inflation.

Quote :
"The benefits of UBI for society far outpaces any potential negatives. The Expanded Child Tax Credit of 2021 lifted millions of children out of poverty. Smart investments in our people are good things to do, period. The majority of inflation we've been experiencing is caused by ongoing global supply chain disruptions, increased corporate profits, and yes some via monetary policy over the last 2 years. "


These things don't go away with UBI; they're exacerbated. I've expressed the impact on corporate profits and monetary policy above.

7/29/2022 4:24:19 PM

bbehe
Burn it all down.
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So qntm is just going to ignore the fraud allegations about the Green party.

7/29/2022 5:40:10 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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Greens guilty until proven innocent ITT?

7/29/2022 5:59:39 PM

StTexan
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^^maybe he just doesn’t want to engage in a back and forth with you

7/29/2022 10:42:57 PM

qntmfred
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Quote :
"So qntm is just going to ignore the fraud allegations about the Green party. "


consider me baited. I posted in the multi-party thread though.

7/30/2022 2:28:19 PM

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