I’d like to see those graphs adjusted by yearly income of the families.

8/28/2018 8:47:38 AM

i think he's off his adderall

8/28/2018 9:21:18 AM

I'll need someone to enlighten me on what I need to do to stop being a Nazi. Please let me know because now I can't live with myself being all Nazi and white supremacisty.

Besides voting for Bernie, what can I do to un-become a Nazi? Because voting for Obama in '08 and '12 wouldn't have been enough apparently.

Should I give away everything I've obtained by using my white privilege? Which is basically everything I've ever done or achieved because, you know, I'm white.

What boggles my mind is that I feel like moron is saying all of this with a straight face. Like he's actually confused when he says these things and people don't agree with him. And he can't understand why people take offense at being called white supremacists.

8/28/2018 10:26:54 AM

Step 1 - dont be offended and have knee jerk opposition when someone points out your privilege or your support for systems that are built on racism and inequality, instead consider how you benefit from those systems and think about what changes could be made.

8/28/2018 10:35:19 AM

While I understand what you’re saying and I’m not saying this is the case with you, I find it hilarious that being political correct and having “feelings” is a problem up until someone gets called a racist or white supremacist.

Calling someone who wants health care reform or to put worker reps on corporate boards a “communist” is pretty normal. Calling someone who wants to continue the white male status quo (consciously or subconsciously) a Nazi is all of a sudden breaching some kind of ethics code.

Clean your room bucko

8/28/2018 10:40:14 AM

^^^ yep

^^
Eh. Fuck it. I'm pretty sure the looney-wing left is gonna call us white supremacists no matter what, so fuck it. Whatever.

I'm here waiting, if either side ever again decides to not be fucking crazy. In the meantime, I'll be looking into expat options, just in case.


[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 10:48 AM. Reason : ]

8/28/2018 10:43:30 AM

Compared to most of the planet our politics are pretty sane imo.

8/28/2018 10:53:30 AM

Why are you guys so offended by this?

8/28/2018 10:54:10 AM

I'm not offended, and I recognize my privilege, I just think it's stupid and counter-productive to call Obama a White Supremacist, and it's silly and counter-productive to call people nazis who think it's stupid to call Obama a White Supremacist.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 11:07 AM. Reason : ]

8/28/2018 11:06:51 AM

How about "enabler of white supremacy"?

8/28/2018 11:26:34 AM

(the nazi comment is a comparison, people arguing about which kind of racist they are is the same as arguing about which kind of nazi. i haven't called anyone a nazi and i don't think anyone else has either)

if your gut reaction is "whoa whoa whoa, white supremacist? I don't like that word choice, they should use a different description!" then you should look inward and investigate that reaction

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 11:43 AM. Reason : and to clarify, i haven't used white supremacist for mccain or obama, i'm just not bothered by it]

8/28/2018 11:42:34 AM

The emerging term for that is “white fragility”

Related to this topic:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/26/17613844/racial-diversity-poll-twitter-white-people

8/28/2018 12:04:04 PM

The conservative end of this forum is pretty moderate about this stuff, too. Another forum I visit had a similar discussion where the right wingers claimed if you talk about white people as a block (specifically, as an impediment to racial/class equality), you're the real racist. They're actually not racist at all because they "don't see color" and are privileged enough to ignore it entirely.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2018 12:23:45 PM

^ it's going to be interesting to see how society evolves as white people increasingly are not the majority. Trump is trying hard to reverse this trend, but it probably won't be enough.

I'm not sure a change like this is precedented in history, so I'm sure there's tons of new challenges to face.

In a few decades though, we'll be in a situation where a majority of the country's wealth is concentrated with 1 racial minority group, which isn't going to be sustainable in a democracy. Either rich white people need to start having kids with nonwhites, to start paying out more in wages, or they're going to be facing the wrath of an angry Democracy.

8/28/2018 12:38:06 PM

isn't this kind of change pretty common for former colonies?

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 12:42 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2018 12:41:23 PM

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1034467828848644104?s=21

Would be cool if we had a functioning Congress to provide some oversight on to what happened here and how to prevent it in the future.

Maybe Hillary can email John Podesta about it so someone would care.

8/28/2018 12:47:32 PM

Quote :

" "whoa whoa whoa, white supremacist? I don't like that word choice, they should use a different description!" then you should look inward and investigate that reaction"

Ah, so that label has never been applied inappropriately, despite the fact that moron's own blog-o-sphere can't even agree that their new liberal application of it is even appropriate. But we all need to look inward.

Quote :

"Trump is trying hard to reverse this trend, but it probably won't be enough"

Probably won't? You think that idiot has a chance of reversing that trend with what little time he's got to be in charge? It's not just about immigration ya know...

Quote :

"a majority of the country's wealth is concentrated with 1 racial minority group"

Except there's not going to be an alternate majority group (like in South Africa) to be pissed off, so I think your predictions for some sort of uprising are not very probable.

8/28/2018 12:52:20 PM

thinking something is applied incorrectly doesn't normally upset people into a reaction

8/28/2018 12:55:33 PM

Oh so now the approach is just pointing at people in this thread and saying Y U SO MAD THO? Cool.

8/28/2018 12:59:34 PM

Quote :

"Except there's not going to be an alternate majority group (like in South Africa) to be pissed off, so I think your predictions for some sort of uprising are not very probable. "

Huh? You don't think a coalition of blacks/asians/latinos can't be pissed off together??

Probably what will happen though is white people will finally accept jews and paler latinos, and even some asians, into their ranks keeping the white majority trend going a bit longer, like they did with the Irish and Italians back in the days.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 1:01 PM. Reason : ]

8/28/2018 12:59:35 PM

Quote :

"thinking something is applied incorrectly doesn't normally upset people into a reaction"

Yes it does. What does this even mean? Aren't you always complaining that people use the term "socialism" wrong?

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 1:01 PM. Reason : words mean stuff]

8/28/2018 1:00:46 PM

I recommend everyone read this. She nails all of the common talking points in the first paragraph. It's a psychological complex that requires collective therapy.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/a-sociologist-examines-the-white-fragility-that-prevents-white-americans-from-confronting-racism

I think it goes a bit too far to call people white supremacists if they don't consciously believe in white superiority, but most people will be offended at the idea that they're complicit at all.

Quote :

"“The most effective adaptation of racism over time,” DiAngelo claims, “is the idea that racism is conscious bias held by mean people.” This “good/bad binary,” positing a world of evil racists and compassionate non-racists, is itself a racist construct, eliding systemic injustice and imbuing racism with such shattering moral meaning that white people, especially progressives, cannot bear to face their collusion in it."

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2018 1:02:34 PM

^^ no

^ yes

8/28/2018 1:22:55 PM

Quote :

"Huh? You don't think a coalition of blacks/asians/latinos can't be pissed off together??"

Not unless they vote together.

I don't Asians will join in your revolution either.

8/28/2018 1:24:11 PM

I don't disagree that I'm complicit.

But should I apologize for just living a life? Should I demean myself (by calling myself a white supremacist) for simply eking out a living for me and my family within the framework in which I was born? I cannot help that I was born into a majority and have taken whatever perceived advantages that brings along. And to call me a white supremacist or nazi for simply taking part is just over the top.

You're not going to shame me into voting for a socialist candidate by changing the definition of adjectives and then applying them to me. What you can do though is show me the money. Show me how you'll pay for all of the social programs that are needed to bring an end to white(majority) privilege, and if it makes sense, I'll vote for that candidate.

And I threw in the word majority because sometimes I wonder, how much of the privileges that I've enjoyed over the years have been brought about because I'm white? Or because I was simply born into a majority. Is it really white privilege? Or majority privilege? Perhaps that is a topic for another thread.

8/28/2018 2:26:57 PM

dtownral, tell us about your history in white supremacy, both in actions and political positions.

8/28/2018 2:40:32 PM

^^^ Asians are a tiny percent of the population, the blacks/latinos don't need the asians

but i bet the asians WOULD join this coalition, because a fairer balance of wealth is just good policy.

^^
It's not about shame, it's about solving problems. No one cares if you feel shame or not

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 2:48 PM. Reason : ]

8/28/2018 2:46:44 PM

Quote :

"Is it really white privilege? Or majority privilege? "

yes.

Quote :

"But should I apologize for just living a life?"

no. who asked you to?

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ]

8/28/2018 2:51:30 PM

moron is the rjrumfel of the TWW left.

8/28/2018 3:03:52 PM

Quote :

"Probably what will happen though is white people will finally accept jews and paler latinos, and even some asians, into their ranks keeping the white majority trend going a bit longer, like they did with the Irish and Italians back in the days."

I think we’re pretty functionally already there.

Quote :

"but i bet the asians WOULD join this coalition, because a fairer balance of wealth is just good policy"

Hahaha. I would definitely take the other side of that bet.

8/28/2018 3:19:27 PM

^ asians have high incomes but still lag behind whites in wealth

Centuries of white peoples accumulating land and power is not going to be easy to overcome...

8/28/2018 3:23:54 PM

I think people overestimate the possible collaboration between minority groups. The moment power is achieved they remove themselves from the lower rung. White people happen to be at the top bc of sheer numbers and timing.

Have you ever spoken to a Dominican about their opinions on Haitians????

Also the racism between groups from China alone is apparent in New York. The Fujianese are always shit on.

8/28/2018 3:31:09 PM

starting to get so close to a comment about not being able to discuss white people as a bloc

8/28/2018 3:34:23 PM

What’s the end goal? At what point is society good? And are we only discussing the US or society as a whole?

I’ve had similar discussions with people and the answer is never the same. I find Morons posts to be coasting away from the initial message.

8/28/2018 3:42:15 PM

there is no goal with that post, it's a call back to adultswim's post earlier on the page

8/28/2018 3:56:04 PM

No, I want to

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 4:07 PM. Reason : Double post!!!!!]

8/28/2018 4:05:05 PM

No, I want to know your opinion. What’s the goal of this discussion.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 4:08 PM. Reason : Ggg]

8/28/2018 4:06:56 PM

i did not start this discussion

8/28/2018 4:10:43 PM

Quote :

"What’s the end goal? At what point is society good? And are we only discussing the US or society as a whole? I’ve had similar discussions with people and the answer is never the same."

Why do we need to provide an end goal for you? There is immense inequality across all aspects of society. The goal is to reduce that gap.

8/28/2018 4:21:12 PM

I agree 100%. I do not see any actual solutions in this thread tho. Calling people white supremists for 2 pages was getting boring to me. I don’t see how any of this inequality changes if all white people suddenly stop voting as a “white bloc”. Or how that would even happen.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 4:30 PM. Reason : Bbbbbb]

8/28/2018 4:29:42 PM

Quote :

""What’s the end goal? At what point is society good?"

make america great again.

8/28/2018 5:13:44 PM

Quote :

"i did not start this discussion"

You've cosigned it at every step.

Quote :

"I don’t see how any of this inequality changes if all white people suddenly stop voting as a “white bloc”."

White people vote as a white bloc?

8/28/2018 5:19:31 PM

I just want to point out that at no point did moron call McCain, Obama, or any of you, a white supremacist. This is what he said that got you all upset:

Quote :

"white supremacist political viewpoints"

Because of white fragility, you all interpreted that as a personal attack, rather than an observation of the way certain viewpoints prop up white people disproportionately.

So given that, what issue do you have with any of his statements?

And please read the article I posted earlier before you get offended at the phrase "white fragility". It's not an insult, it's a psychological phenomenon.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 5:41 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2018 5:34:38 PM

Listen guys! YOU ARE BEING HYSTERICAL!

8/28/2018 5:42:14 PM

Quote :

"I just want to point out that at no point did moron call McCain or Obama a white supremacist. "

What planet do you live on? This was moron's comment that started this entire stupid discussion:

Quote :

"There’s liberals trashing McCain because they’re fundamentally opposed to his imperialist, white supremacist polical viewpoints."

and then:

Quote :

"Obama had white supremacist political viewpoints."

moron:

Quote :

"Yeah a lot of neoliberal policies are based in entrenching whiteness, including Obama’s."

moron:

Quote :

"Obama was very centrist, but when a centrist upholds a status quo built on white supremacy, doesn't that make them an agent of white supremacy also?"

thats a yuge swath of people, including the two at hand.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 5:43 PM. Reason : Very fun semantics game though ]

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 5:45 PM. Reason : man, you 3 are all about slapping labels on people. snowflakes, white supremacist, white fragility...what else ya got?]

8/28/2018 5:42:19 PM

To quote the article since no one is going to read it:

Quote :

"If your definition of a racist is someone who holds conscious dislike of people because of race, then I agree that it is offensive for me to suggest that you are racist when I don’t know you,” she writes. “I also agree that if this is your definition of racism, and you are against racism, then you are not racist."

So again, no one called anyone a white supremacist. Just like there's a difference between being a racist, and saying something unintentionally racist, a person can have political views which are white supremacist, without consciously believing whites are superior.

Quote :

"Whites profit off of an American political and economic system that showers advantages on racial “winners” and oppresses racial “losers.”"

So if you advance this socio-economic system without taking race (which is intrinsically tied to class) into account, you are propping up white supremacy.

8/28/2018 5:59:14 PM

I read it and it’s fairly obvious what the article is saying and your recap is fine. The message is not crazy imo. However Moron derailed any worthwhile discussion that would have came from this.

Quote :

"^^^ Asians are a tiny percent of the population, the blacks/latinos don't need the asians but i bet the asians WOULD join this coalition, because a fairer balance of wealth is just good policy."

I mean...lol. This is hilarious.

8/28/2018 6:12:34 PM

i agree he got a little carried away with the Warriors-esque political fan-fic

8/28/2018 6:14:55 PM

A little carried away? His statement shows a completely warped world view

something I find difficult with this message board is lack of knowledge about the person making the argument. If I remember correctly a few people live in high rises in downtown Raleigh. I find this living situation to fit with the worldview being described as “white supremacy” and holding up this status quo.

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 6:36 PM. Reason : Detp]

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 6:37 PM. Reason : So many typos]

8/28/2018 6:23:47 PM

Quote :

"You've cosigned it at every step."

:yawn:

Quote :

"i've actually not seen white supremacist used this way, but getting upset about which specific type of racism something is is like when the nazi alt-rights get mad at you for calling them nazi and ask you to define nazi."

Quote :

"it's maybe an ineffective term to use because snowflakes don't like confronting their own contributions to racism. it doesn't accomplish what i think is the goal of using it."

Quote :

"and to clarify, i haven't used white supremacist for mccain or obama, i'm just not bothered by it"

[Edited on August 28, 2018 at 6:33 PM. Reason : so many sensitive snowflakes ]

8/28/2018 6:31:52 PM